Remaining Relevant: Stucky, Yon on Access to Data, Coordination and Competition

There’s risk, and the faith that pushes you to take it. There’s challenge, and critical thinking and intentional action that allows you to overcome. For Gordon Stucky and Kevin Yon, their work as first-generation Angus breeders has been studded with risk, faith, thought and action. In this episode, they give advice and discuss current trends and hurdles, along with the ways they approach them head-on in their seedstock operations.

They answer questions like: How do Angus breeders remain competitive? What’s the relevance of a breed association today? How do you work smarter? 

HOSTS: Mark McCully and Miranda Reiman

GUESTS: 
Gordon Stucky’s roots in Kingman County, Kansas, trace back to 1937, when his parents established a diversified crop and livestock operation. Stucky began the transition to a registered Angus cattle herd in 1976. After graduating from Kansas State University with an animal science degree, he returned to the ranch to build the herd he and his wife, Caroline, and family have today.

Stucky served as president of the American Angus Association and in leadership roles with the Kansas Livestock Association, Kansas Farm Bureau, Kansas Extension Council and the Beef Improvement Federation.

Keivn Yon, Ridge Spring, S.C., and his wife, Lydia, established Yon Family Farms in 1996. All three of their children and their families have returned to the operation, which is now home to 700 head of Angus brood cows and 300 commercial cows.

Yon has served as president of the American Angus Association, president of the South Carolina Angus Association and South Carolina Cattlemen’s Association. 


This podcast is brought to you by Zoetis Genetics. Visit beefgenetics.com  for more information.  

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Transcript

Miranda Reiman (00:00:01):
Welcome to the Angus Conversation. I'm your host Miranda Reiman with my co-host, Mark McCully.

Mark McCully (00:00:06):
How are you today, Miranda?

Miranda Reiman (00:00:07):
I'm excellent. Mark. We just finished up the 2023 Angus Convention, which is always a great time to see everybody live and in person.

Mark McCully (00:00:17):
Kind of a family reunion. It is. We get the Angus family together. It's several days of events. We even had a few more pre tours down here in Florida. Some folks got to go out and see some of the significant cow-calf production that exists here in the state of Florida and take in some of the other Florida sights before the convention got started and then just wrapped up the Annual Convention of delegates and it's been a busy several days, but it's been really great to see everybody.

Miranda Reiman (00:00:42):
Right, so the business meeting kind of is the first thing that happens here at Angus Convention and I actually wasn't there, so I'm going to have to rely on you completely for the recap, Mark.

Mark McCully (00:00:52):
Yeah, well, we do start with a board meeting actually, that we started on a Friday where the board is here and we do a board. It's a very much a scaled down

Miranda Reiman (00:01:01):
Kind of a light

Mark McCully (00:01:02):
Board meeting. Yeah, a board meeting, light. Yeah, well said. There's not a lot of topics on there. Usually it's the end of the fiscal year, all of the wrap up types of things. We go through kind of all the final year end stats, things that the board we hadn't a chance to deep dive into since we were last together. The fiscal year was just wrapping up. Everything was forecasted at that point, so this was all kind of the final year end things. Of course in October there was a lot of activity with the World Angus evaluation and functional longevity EPDs, and so the board got updates on how those were going and gave feedback of a couple of those big rollouts here just last month.

Miranda Reiman (00:01:38):
And you also had some special guests related to that or partners of ours in that world Angus evaluation? Yeah,

Mark McCully (00:01:44):
We had the folks from Angus Australia that were here actually as a trade show exhibitor because they are hosting the 2025 World Angus Forum and they wanted to start creating awareness around that, and so it was great to have Scott Wright, their CEO since he was here and since we've just come through that collaboration with the World Angus evaluation, had him in and visit and the board got to learn a little bit more about their association and kind of some of their goals,

Miranda Reiman (00:02:09):
And we also had special guests in the auxiliary presented. I understand.

Mark McCully (00:02:12):
Absolutely. This is usually the meeting, the outgoing president, in this case it was Julie Conover from Missouri. Julie has a great year as president of the Auxiliary. She came in and gave us an update of all the great things that they've been up to this year.

Miranda Reiman (00:02:28):
Now I always get a little bit of fomo. I don't want to miss out on anything, but I had a good excuse for being late to coming down to Angus Convention, but when I heard from other people, probably the most interesting thing that you guys talked about was some of the inclusion of tools and the teat and utter scores that are hopefully going to become an EPD shortly.

Mark McCully (00:02:51):
Yeah, so we did also give some research updates with the board around teat and udder and that is likely going to be coming out here the first of the year, again in a research phase. Then of course with Functional Longevity and teat and udder, obviously both being maternal traits, there's been the discussion and the goal all along was at some point to include those once those EPDs become what we call production EPDs, meaning we run 'em every week and in the normal run and available to everyone type of thing, that they get included in the dollar maternal weaned calf value or dollar M index. And so we did get some direction from that as we talked to the board, really kind of laying out a couple different options and ultimately more around the speed of inclusion and how fast we try to work towards getting those included. And ultimately what the board chose was to not be in a rush on these things.

(00:03:46):
The goal of a research EPD is to get it out, allow breeders to, I think the term Kelli always used the sniff test and get some feedback, and so that's the plan with both of those EPDs is to get 'em out into breeders' hands, let them use them, and then start working towards the inclusion in dollar M, but not here probably this coming summer more probably thinking the summer following that anytime there's major changes to the index or new trait inclusions, we try to do that end of May, 1st of June. That tends to be the least disruptive in the marketplace and breeding seasons and everything else, so looking at really down the road 25 as when that might be available. But yeah, I think some really great feedback and we also talked about the opportunity to maybe do some regional meetings where we'd go out and meet and talk through some of these new tools and hear from breeders and get some more feedback before we make any changes or specifically to Dollar M.

Miranda Reiman (00:04:53):
Yeah, just want 'em as predictable as possible when they actually go out into production.

Mark McCully (00:04:58):
Absolutely,

Miranda Reiman (00:04:58):
Yeah. Then the other thing that I know that you talked about was forecasting some future Angus conventions, places that you'll be next. We've had a great week here in Orlando, had nearly 1200 people here. That was fabulous, but next year you want to go ahead and join us in Fort Worth?

Mark McCully (00:05:17):
Yeah, we'll be heading back to Fort Worth. That's always a really popular spot that folks enjoy coming to and that'll be 24, 25. We'll be in Kansas City is planned. And then we're also looking at down the road 26 and that seems like an awful long ways away, but of course with these conventions you got to get in front as it relates to hotels and facilities and such, and looking at going back to Louisville, Kentucky, and I say back because for some they well know the heritage of having the annual meeting at Louisville in conjunction with the North American, and so looking at opportunities of how we might do that and how we might move the convention back to Louisville a couple of years down the road.

Miranda Reiman (00:05:56):
Great. So one of the highlights of having everybody here was we got to do several interviews for the podcast. We talked about innovation a lot on the main stage. That was kind of the theme of several of these tracks was innovation and got to talk to several different breeders and other special guests on the podcast all related to innovation.

Mark McCully (00:06:17):
That was the theme and that was kind of my general message when I opened on Saturday morning is we've always been about innovation. The Angus breed is rich with innovation. I even pointed to George Grant 150 years ago, bringing the first Angus cattle over as being an innovator and innovation is definitely in our fabric and will continue to be in our future. We talked about first that starts with people, that starts with creative people, people willing to look at things differently and think about things differently. And then we talked about a lot about technology. I think we all understand that here we are recording a podcast. I am not sure we knew what this was five, six years ago. And so the role that technology is going to play and the term I used was disruptive innovation at times across our industry and not only our industry but across all industries. And so we talked a lot about that and I think really was a nice primer for a lot of great discussions that we were able to have throughout the convention.

Miranda Reiman (00:07:16):
And I'm sure that our two guests that we're going to have on this podcast wouldn't probably say that they were innovators, but we definitely see them that way. First generation Angus breeders and gave us a lot of perspective on just how the industry has changed, what they see going forward, how they plan to remain competitive in a changing landscape.

Mark McCully (00:07:34):
Absolutely. It was that how do you embrace innovation? How do you keep up with it? How do you stay true to your traditions, maintain relevancy, all those things. I think both these guys have a great vantage point on that and it was great to have 'em on board to share.

Miranda Reiman (00:07:48):
Let's listen in. Well, today we're sitting across the table from Gordon Stucky, Stucky Ranch at Kingman, Kansas, and Kevin Yon, Yon Family Farms there at Rich Springs, South Carolina. So thank you guys for joining us.

Kevin Yon (00:08:05):
Thank you

(00:08:05):
Good to be here.

Miranda Reiman (00:08:06):
So why don't you just give us a brief, I think a lot of our listeners probably know you guys from leadership positions in the American Angus Association and have a lot of name recognition, but just give us your elevator speech of your operation. Kevin, you want to start?

Kevin Yon (00:08:20):
Okay, I'll go first. I'm Kevin Yon from Yon Family Farms in Ridge Springs, South Carolina. My wife Lydia, and our three grown children and now six little grandchildren all run and operate Yon Family Farms. We're a Angus seedstock operation. We sell about 400 bulls a year and primarily registered Angus and just appreciate the opportunity to be with you today.

Mark McCully (00:08:47):
You have diversified a little bit, that's really, you've diversified from the very get go. You've got some other, have done some equipment, but also have gotten into the retail side of things a little bit too.

Kevin Yon (00:08:59):
We have. Our family has a small farm retail store in a storefront in our little town of Ridge Spring and a few years ago we had the opportunity to get into the pecan business or pecan if you'd rather say that. And so we sell local farm to market products, which includes Yon Family Farms Beef, and soon to be Yon Family Farm Certified Angus Beef

Mark McCully (00:09:23):
Through the Ranch to Table program. Very cool.

Kevin Yon (00:09:25):
Very

Miranda Reiman (00:09:26):
Cool. And I would put in an unsolicited plug here. Their pralines are like the best. If you want to give me a Christmas gift, if you want to give me a Christmas gift, that would be, yeah,

Mark McCully (00:09:35):
We have even made it to Kansas

Miranda Reiman (00:09:37):
Yeah, high on my list.

Kevin Yon (00:09:37):
You can go to the Nuthouse and Country Market and make your order

Miranda Reiman (00:09:43):
That's we can get some advertising dollars out of this. Maybe

Kevin Yon (00:09:47):
They make wonderful Christmas gifts.

Mark McCully (00:09:49):
 Yeah, they are excellent. Absolutely.

Miranda Reiman (00:09:51):
So Gordon, yeah, give us the elevator speech. You

Gordon Stucky (00:09:54):
Bet. Yeah. I'm Gordon Stucky, headquartered in Kingman, Kansas. Our ranch has kind of been in existence since 1937. My father and grandfather would've started in that area and when I came along about the 1976, 77 range, I had more interest in the registered part of it than just the commercial Angus and turned that over pretty quickly. My father was very accommodating and helped me get a great start, and so we've ended up to be a herd that we run in the 600 cow range diversified, have some farming as well, but main focus is providing really top end bulls to our commercial industry in the area, have some very good relationships with our auction markets in our area, and then also feed yards for our customers that want to feed our stock out and have tried to just really focus on customer service and be very focused on that.

Mark McCully (00:10:53):
As I think about both of you guys' stories, I mean both have built to these very, very successful programs. Both of you guys have sat in leadership roles at the American Angus Association and you're both first generation Angus breeders really, right? I mean, is that how you would consider yourself, I guess as you guys both look back on your history we've got, I always say we've got listeners out there that maybe dream of starting their own registered operation maybe what were some of the keys of starting from the ground up, like both of you guys did?

Gordon Stucky (00:11:26):
In my area, the Kansas Angus Association was extremely strong at that point in time, the 1970s, probably three to four times the number of breeders in Kansas that there are today. And that association just kind of took me in as a teenager, as a family member. And several folks, George Crenshaw, Allan Miller, Eldo Kroeker, some of those guys just took me in as a son and before I even got the American Angus experience, got treated very well there. And that's what just kept me hooked. I mean when those guys just took me in. So, yeah

Mark McCully (00:12:05):
I think those state associations do play such a key role. I was talking to somebody the other day, a brand new breeder, and they said they wanted to get on the map and I said, well, that's great. That's a great goal. Do you know your state associations? And they hadn't even started really plugging in there yet. And I think that's a great reminder of, starting with those, starting local, if you will, and those really, really good state organizations that can help you, especially a new person, really start meeting and networking.

Gordon Stucky (00:12:36):
Oh, absolutely. And then of course they had cattle to sell, but then the customer service that they provided me and so on just kind of provided me the roadmap to go forward. So very appreciative of the Kansas Angus Association.

Kevin Yon (00:12:48):
I think back in our startup operation, there's so many keys that have helped us be somewhat successful, and that's yet to be determined if we're successful or not. But what little success we've had so far is I think anytime that whatever the business might be is that you're passionate about it. And it was a dream of mine to get to do this. So I feel very blessed that I get to wake up every morning and live a dream. And I was also blessed with a wife that had the similar dream, but something I think that's key is that you're passionate about what you're doing and we're very passionate about Angus cattle and the beef cattle industry, but that you've got a product to sell. And when we started our family operation Angus wasn't quite in the driver's seat that it is now, but we've, for the people that's gone before us and the American Angus Association and our industry has demanded our product. So even a not so good salesperson like myself, you can sell something if the demand is there and the demand has been for those commercial Angus bulls,

Mark McCully (00:13:54):
Says the guy that did the plug for his retail store, it's not a very good salesperson. Sure. So as you guys think about where things are at today versus when you guys started, do you think it's easier to get started as a first generation breeder today, harder to get started, as you would size up and maybe give advice to someone getting started? Is it harder, easier? What do you think?

Gordon Stucky (00:14:18):
Boy, that's kind of a tough one. I mean, of course, first of all, the young person has to have tremendous desire to get into agriculture and especially then the registered Angus business, which is very competitive, but input costs and startup costs are just through the roof. So to me, that's the first thing that's kind of a big roadblock if you've got to have a tremendous financial plan to even begin to, if they want to attack it as I want to make a living here, or is it just going to be a hobby and so on. But gosh, the programs and the data and all the things that we have available on the flip side of that make it to me very manageable for a person to come in and say, gosh, here's kind of the roadmap. Everything is electronic. We can see within a few moments of what's selling well, what's not doing well, how you structure breeding programs and so on. So there's some things to me that would be a tick easier than when Kevin and I started.

Miranda Reiman (00:15:12):
But then you got to figure out all those data programs too. Oh,

Gordon Stucky (00:15:15):
Absolutely. No, I didn't say it was going to be easy.

Kevin Yon (00:15:21):
I'm not sure I can say if it would be easier or harder. I will say that it will never be easy

(00:15:26):
But I would also say that is certainly doable. And again, the patience, the persistence, having mentors, and maybe something that might perhaps make it more available now is that in agriculture and the beef industry, we have some producers that are ready to slow down. They're getting of the age that they're ready to retire. Maybe they want to sell their farm or ranch, maybe they don't. But I do think there's a lot of opportunities for young folks to some way have some sort of relationship and some way there'd be some generational transfer. And a lot of those times it doesn't have to be to someone with the same last name, it can be to a non-family member. So I like to encourage young people to, you got to be patient, you got to work hard, you got to do the right thing. But good things happen to those that are willing to do those things. And there's plenty of opportunities out there. And quite frankly, our industry needs young people. We need them. And there are families that would love to transition their operation to someone else.

Mark McCully (00:16:42):
That's a great point. I'm glad you brought it up because I do think I've had that conversation quite a few times, folks that don't have their own next generation to hand off to, but absolutely want to see it transferred and would love to work with a young person, a young couple or whatever to get to make that handoff and to help that, to mentor them through that. And those opportunities are out there and I think about, the harder they work, the luckier you get, right, and to be able to network and figure them out.

Miranda Reiman (00:17:17):
You bring up that next generation. You guys have both successfully brought the next generation into your operations. Do you guys have advice for how to do that or how to do it well? They're both smiling at each other.

Kevin Yon (00:17:32):
I'm not sure we've done it well, never did we realize that we have three children, and never did we realize that maybe we thought one or two might come back, but we never dreamed that all three would come back. And it is truly a gratifying experience. Is it easy? Absolutely not. Most of us that work with family know that it can be challenging, but for us it's very gratifying and very rewarding. As the dad, there's a huge responsibility because lots of times when you look at family coming back in, sometimes the dad can be part of the problem. They'll come back with better ideas than you have and maybe different ways to do things. And so I think you've got to be real open-minded, you've got to give responsibilities, you've got to reward. You've got allow them to make mistakes on their own. And as I look back on my service to the American Angus Association as a board member, I never thought that I could be away from our farm for that length of time. And it bothered me and I put off running, running for the board because of that. But as I look back, it helped me mature, but maybe even more so it helped my children because I thought just because I wasn't there, things wouldn't get done. Right. Well, I come back home and actually they were done better than had I been there. But so I would encourage folks to be active and to give their children or whoever that again, it might be someone with not the same last name, so give them opportunity.

Miranda Reiman (00:19:13):
I think Jerry Connealy has said almost that same exact quote word for word about the being away from his operation and letting somebody else stand up or rise to the challenge.

Gordon Stucky (00:19:24):
You bet. Yeah. I'm going to approach that from just a tick different angle. There's a pull in America today for people to have shorter work weeks and want more money. And our young folks in agriculture see that even though you can be on fire for the Angus business and for agriculture, you still see that. And I've had specific discussions with more commercial ranchers in my area that are faced with some of that, that have very talented children coming on, but to just make it all click, especially if they have a little feeding operation or something where there has to be things done Saturday night, Sunday morning, Sunday night, those are probably the biggest challenges that we have right now, even in our very top families, is how is the work going to get done seven days a week, 365 days a year? And so I've had just some really down to earth conversations with some of these families, and I think that's one of our bigger power struggles right now to transfer the asset base of agriculture going forward.

(00:20:34):
And I think that's something that we all, each operation just has to figure out on their own. There's no clear cut or wrong, I don't believe, but I really do feel like that that's one of our challenges. Now, on the flip side of that, there is tremendous technology coming on board that can help us and help these young folks maybe get just absolutely as much as they possibly can get done in five and a half, six and a half days out of the week. And that to me is probably their lifeline to be able to go forward with a larger operation and probably the same number of folks, not additional help boots on the ground, but we've got to pull from technology with these young folks to get it all done. And especially data submission and how you analyze just the overall management of your ranch and so on.

Mark McCully (00:21:27):
So I think that's, and we've done things even in the organization of the differences in approaching work across generations. And we talk about, and I'm not a millennial basher and by any ways to shape or form.

Miranda Reiman (00:21:42):
Thank you. Appreciate that.

Mark McCully (00:21:43):
Yeah, but there's definitely generations approach work differently, and a lot of times I know as folks that have, it took seven days a week, 365 days a year to build what they've got when they expect, there's an expectation that is going to be exactly the recipe for the next person that takes the reins, and maybe it's some of these next gener, they're a little smarter. They've looked at that and said, you know what? There's a few other things to life. And we want to find a little bit of that balance. And I think it is definitely a challenge, but I think you bring up the potential labor savings and some of these efficiencies that could be found and solved through technology are going to be key.

Gordon Stucky (00:22:26):
Oh, I think so. Absolutely.

Miranda Reiman (00:22:28):
I'm always quick also to point out that I think sometimes it feels like, oh, the younger generation doesn't want to work as hard. I think sometimes their work is just shifted and we're taking care of our families and things like that. Yeah, we're running kids far further places than what my parents, my in-laws don't leave the farm and ranch all that often, but if we were running our family that same way, you just wouldn't, your kids wouldn't be involved in the activities and some of that kind of stuff. So yeah, I think,

Gordon Stucky (00:22:58):
Well, just some of the technology that was brought up yesterday of what all can our phone do to track our cattle, to see cattle and identify cattle that are maybe getting sick or any of those types of things. To me that's just time savings that going forward, I think our operations are going to have to have,

Miranda Reiman (00:23:17):
Right? Or the way that we're able to be more mobile in that maybe somebody's driving down the road trying to get to that basketball game and somebody's entering data in the passenger seat. I mean, you wouldn't have been able to do that.

Gordon Stucky (00:23:28):
Oh, sure.

Kevin Yon (00:23:29):
10 years. I think that whole work life balance is a struggle for all of us. And maybe the next generation is maybe figuring that out better than even my generation. Because in technology, just an example, I see my sons and daughters, they're able to coach little league baseball and they'll have their device and they may be turning on an irrigation system from their phone from the dugout, whereas in the old days, I would've spent the night with that irrigation system. Or like you say, they may be entering data while we're at work, we're at chuteside, we're putting it in the, we're not, but we should be putting it in the cloud. And you're not doing that at night. And these devices can be a bit of aggravation at time. But I know in mine and Gordon's tenure used to be at lunch and at night we would be on the phone.

Miranda Reiman (00:24:25):
Now

Kevin Yon (00:24:25):
We're on the phone on and off during the day, but there's not as many interruptions in our family time at night as there used to be.

Miranda Reiman (00:24:35):
That's good perspective. Yeah. I would've thought maybe that you would have more interruptions because you're readily available more often Now. How do you shut it off? That's something I struggle with. My home office is right there off my kitchen, so I can hear an email like, oh, that might be important. Maybe McCully needs something. It's 10 o'clock,

Mark McCully (00:24:54):
I'd just be calling you.

Miranda Reiman (00:24:55):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (00:24:57):
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Mark McCully (00:25:29):
As you guys think about, again, multi-generations involved in the operation. How do you approach decision-making? Is there a division of work and different people have responsibilities for different things? Is it a board meeting? How do you go about decision making?

Kevin Yon (00:25:46):
I think back to the devotion this morning at the American Auxiliary breakfast, and the verse was from the Bible talking about the body is made up of so many different parts and the ear has functions in the eyes and the legs and the arms. So in our situation, and I think it would be in most any, we all are not good at the same things. Some of us have stronger skill sets in some areas than others. It might be a sense of enjoyment. If we're enjoying what we do, then we're likely to do a better job. So at our place, we try really hard not to use any titles or not to buttonhole anyone in any particular position. We still want everyone to know most of it because they need to. But we like to let folks, as they say at COB, having the right people on the bus, but then getting the right people in the right seat. And sometimes it takes a little time to do that, but I think whether it's our employees or family, when we have them, the right people on the bus and we have them in the right seat where they're comfortable and happy and feel fulfilling, then they'll perform much better

Gordon Stucky (00:26:59):
In our operation. We have kind of have a little bit of a unique situation in our large cow working days. Typically we'll have four to five guys there, and the range in age will be from 26 to 67 and creates for just a unique atmosphere. And it's interesting because these guys have been with me quite a few years, our day help type guys and so on, and there's kind of developed this mentoring system all on its own. And our 26 year old, he gets a lot of a advice, granted, but he takes it well. And we just know that he's the heavy lifter when it's all said and done, but yet we're all envious that he's still 26. So that's kind the bottom line. But kind of like you, Kevin, over time we've had to let that shakeout happen of, okay, we want the best person in the best place at the right time every time we have these extremely big working days and so on.

(00:28:02):
And then some of the other days are a little more coasting and we're scattered about and so on. But to me, that's always been one of my philosophies is you get the best person to help you at the right time with really good knowledge.

Miranda Reiman (00:28:14):
I really love that.

Mark McCully (00:28:15):
Yeah. Did you guys look at the business, I mean been in the registered seedstock business now over a span of time. Talk about some of the changes, maybe the most significant changes to the registered Angus business that you've seen in your time as a registered Angus breeder.

Gordon Stucky (00:28:32):
Oh man. To me, that one's easy. Just the amount of data. I mean, you got to remember, the first heifer that I purchased in 1976 we bought was strictly just a pedigree. And she might've had some estimated breeding values. I think, and I don't even know if those boxes were filled up, but compared to what we have today, it's just a huge light switch. It's been gradual and people have grown into it, but the amount of data that we have, and to me that's our lifeblood of how we can so accurately describe this animal for another person to purchase or semen use or that type of thing. That's where the American Angus Association has just shown. And to me that's by far our biggest change.

Kevin Yon (00:29:19):
I would agree with Gordon, the data's the currency. And as Angus breeders, we have so many tools in that toolbox, so many, and they're there for us to use. And the thing I like about it, whether it's Gordon in Kingman Kansas or our little operation in South Carolina or wherever, how big or how small the operation is, we all have access to those same tools and we all have access to that same information. And to me it's a real success story. It's a real agriculture success story. What other commodity can... handles their data that way where everyone has equal access or whatever species or what's another crop or species that would give everyone equal access and it's families. It's families that's doing it. So I'm really proud of the work that those that went before us that got this deal set up that way.

Miranda Reiman (00:30:15):
That's a great point. We had some folks on the main stage yesterday, a gal from the aquaculture industry, and she talked about, well, this isn't in production yet because some intellectual property around that. And I mean, that was a real challenge. They're actually in the stage of trying to set up EPDs and things like that and it's really challenging for their industry. So that's a great point. The foresight that the American Angus Association members had decades ago has really set you guys up for success. That's great.

Mark McCully (00:30:45):
What about on your bull customers that are coming to you? What's changed in that regard in terms of what customer service looks like to stay competitive with your, specifically commercial bull customers? What kind of changes have you seen there?

Gordon Stucky (00:31:03):
Well, they're very intelligent. Most of the folks that I deal with are sure, very willing to dig into a spreadsheet to analyze data and be able to do sorts and all those types of things. They really appreciate that. I'm going to say 10 to 15 years ago, it was more just studying that paper catalog and marking with a felt marker. And we've kind of graduated into more computerization of that. And they love it. They love the options. I mean, and of course we try and provide 'em with some options, but let lots of uniformity to where they can buy volume of like kind. And so to me, that's what has helped us with our success, just specifically the commercial bull business.

(00:31:52):
And as far as customer service that just continues to grow incrementally as first it started out free delivery and taking care of 'em on sale day, and then it's grown into, you have those follow-up phone calls, you sure warranty the bulls the very best you can. You want those folks to come back and you want to establish that relationship. And then here over the last several years, we've taken probably more of a move towards the marketing part of it. And all of our customers are different and have different MOs on what they feel like, what's the end point for them to get their most value in respect to their own operation and what their feed stuffs are and what their labor situation is. So we just try and help each one in their own specific situation. We don't try and pull 'em necessarily, but we feel like we have options.

(00:32:45):
We have several auction barns that we have specific relationships with where they want to sell 'em right off the cow or where they want to background them for a while and sell 'em there. We have about three different feedyards that we can point 'em in different directions depending on how many head they have, what their goals are and where their location is. And so all of those things just keep adding up. And the bottom line is you just treat people you would like to be treated. I mean, that's just still the bottom line. And every once in a while you're kind of throwing a curve ball of like, boy, yeah, something went wrong there and we'll make it right. And that's just all you can do. And we just strive for that and give 'em all the data you can, but then back up with all those types of service points.

Miranda Reiman (00:33:32):
So that's not changed. That part hasn't changed.

Gordon Stucky (00:33:35):
That part hasn't changed.

Kevin Yon (00:33:37):
As Angus breeders, we love our cattle, but we're in the people business. And if you look across our breed, those operations that have been tremendously successful, customer service's a number one, and that's what they do. And I kind of agree with Gordon as a breeder and as a bull supplier, it seems as if we've got to run faster and jump higher every year, but that's what we do. I guess it could be argued, but maybe gone is the day that you can just put a sign out by the road that says Angus bulls for sale, and you take the check and you load that bull up and you're done. Maybe you can get by with that in some places, but in our operation it can't. It's customer service is very important and it goes beyond the point of sale. It's a year long or a lifetime relationship, and we love relationships. That's very gratifying. Part of our business is to get to have relationships with some of the best people in the world.

Miranda Reiman (00:34:42):
You say that you had to run harder, jump higher. Do you think that's both in your marketing business side or also in the cattle breeding side too? Do you feel more pressure in that as well? Yeah,

Kevin Yon (00:34:54):
Yeah. I'm not sure, Miranda, if pressure is the word, but this is a business. This is the business breed and there's lots of tools to use and Gordon's customers expect him to use them. Our customers expect them to use them, and oftentimes they're coming to our place and they may know more about those tools than even we do, so they school us. So that's to me is rewarding that it's relevant to our customers that they're asking for it and they're spending their hard earned money with confidence because of the tools.

Gordon Stucky (00:35:33):
This is a very competitive business and competition. I think you would probably agree, Kevin just makes us get better, whether it's in how you put out your sale book or how you advertise and the scope of your operation and how you run your own operation day to day and whether you're BQA certified and whether you can lay that story out there of how we handle our stock and just on and on and on. But Angus breeders help make other Angus breeders better and then our customers kind of make us get that bar up from the bottom because they're going to expect a lot.

Miranda Reiman (00:36:09):
Do you think that competition has changed over time?

Gordon Stucky (00:36:13):
It gets pretty intense at times. I still believe America was built on competition, and I still believe it's just the best for our industry because we all, in my area there in the High Plains region, there's different tiers and levels of sales and what you can buy, but the bottom line is everybody's always pushing everybody just a little bit harder. And to me that's good for the buyer. I mean, the commercial cattleman is the one that's reaping the benefits and at least we hope he's benefiting from everything that we all do.

Kevin Yon (00:36:53):
I think it's wonderful for our industry. We're here today at the Angus Convention and we're sitting in the trade show and we can just look all around and we see competitors having the best time. They're sharing information, they're having fun fellowship. And that's another neat thing about our business that's fairly unique to the cattle business is that we are competitors, but we'll come and share information and iron sharpens iron

Mark McCully (00:37:21):
As you guys talk about, one of the things we talk about is, and taking care of this commercial customer is around helping 'em with some balance at times. And I said one of the things we're so fortunate, we've been involved to have more of a value-based marketing system, which is sending some bigger signals around the value of carcass merit. And back when we sold all the calves at the same price just based on weight, maybe we didn't have that additional signal in the market, right? And at the same time, we know we've got to keep these cows really functional and working. How do you approach that with your commercial customers, helping them find balance, helping them find optimums? Is it through education? Is it through the tools? Is it through herd visits? Kind of what's your approach?

Gordon Stucky (00:38:10):
That's always a challenging one because everybody wants to be number one in everything. That's just kind of the way America's driven and balance is definitely not being number one in everything. Balance is about longevity to me. I'm just kind of talking through our cow herd here, but there's got to be goals in both the seedstock and the commercial industry of that cow needs to be around for 10 years if you need her to be, and she has to do all the things right. And yet we have to balance CAB quality and Prime quality to go along with that. And that's probably one of the bigger challenges to me in our industry right now is not only breeding for that but then promoting that here's what might keep you in business longer than just going after. And it could be on both ends, number one on carcass rates or just number one on maternal or milk or whatever. But that balance is probably going to be your lifeline if you want this to continue for generations and so on. And so I know that's our personal, I'm kind of giving our personal ranch goals there and I know sometimes it's not real sexy to talk about, boy, he's just top 30% all the way across. He's not 1% in anything, but boy, you turn this set of bulls out and they'll be with you and their daughters will be with you and we can still sell 'em at CAB quality and you can still get your premiums, but you're going to have that 10 year old cow as well. And so that's our personal goals and our reach.

Kevin Yon (00:39:40):
I think we're all faced with a wide array of customers, especially in my region. We may have a bull customer that his or her top priority is docility and calving ease and that's why they came. And we can take the opportunity that yes, we can sell you this bull with confidence that docility will be good and they will come mostly unassisted, but when do you sell your calves? Are we looking at weaning weight, are we going to retain ownership? What do you need those daughters to do? So I think we're just very blessed to have all the tools in which I believe in because I see them working and it's probably gotten easier because I think we can sell more with confidence than we once did.

Mark McCully (00:40:31):
If you want to sell a calving-ease bull, you're pretty sure when you sell genomically tested yearling bulls today probably a little more, feel a little more confident that that's truly what you're selling.

Kevin Yon (00:40:41):
Absolutely.

Gordon Stucky (00:40:44):
And part of it is Kevin and I have both been in this business long enough that our customers give us the feedback and it's like, okay, so he was a top 5% calving ease bull and they'll report back to us all unassisted, just music to your ears and you can plug in any trait for that. And probably for Kevin and I, that's our verification that the American Angus Association genetic programs work, they truly work.

Miranda Reiman (00:41:09):
So you guys talked about the business changing a little bit and marketing and some of that. Do you feel like the competitive landscape has changed in terms of I guess your ability to compete as an Angus breeder?

Kevin Yon (00:41:24):
I think so. You can't go asleep at the wheel, you'll get passed by. So we are all unique in our own way, but that landscape is changing a bit and we have to decide what's going to be the way that we're going to make and how can our operation be successful. That's one great thing in this business is there's not a lot of all rights and all wrongs. It's not all black and white and we certainly don't have to do it all the same. And our breed is so diverse that there's lots of opportunity to be unique.

Gordon Stucky (00:42:03):
I think in our High Plains region, the central cut of the U.S., they're, the one thing that's going to continue to change is that these operations are going to continue to get larger. There's going to be more consolidation take place. There's still going to be family outfits in my opinion. I just don't think we're headed to lots of corporate interaction in the near term anyway. But as things consolidate, that means fewer and fewer numbers of customers for Kevin and I to deal with. And so you can't stub your toe and you might be doing more volume business with a particular customer, but it's very critical that you keep that customer.

Miranda Reiman (00:42:43):
Sure. And that's one of the questions that I scratched out. Does vertical integration scare you? I mean, is that a threat?

Kevin Yon (00:42:52):
It doesn't scare me. I'm not even sure I would classify it as a threat, but we don't have to look very far to other species, pork and poultry to see that that's been the model of those businesses. I think if you talk to some of the folks in those industries, they'll tell you that maybe that hadn't always been all good. And I was talking to a pork producer that said they could be swinging back the other way a little bit more. But as Angus breeders and cattlemen, I think we've got to understand that that is a form of doing business and I don't feel pressured to have to do that. I think families that are willing to raise cattle have a wonderful future ... have to vertically coordinate. Absolutely. And I've seen that in my tenure. I like a relationship with that old packer.

(00:43:52):
I had a packer that called me last summer and he wanted to come to the Southeast and see our customers' calves. I didn't take him serious, but next thing I knew, he was coming the fourth week of July and he was from a major packer. He also brought a couple feeders and we went to see cow-calf guys. And to me that was a wonderful success story. I remember we were in a pasture right here in the state of Florida and a lady producer, a cow-calf producer, she had a good set of calves and the feeder actually traded on those calves while we were there. And I said, man, this is such a moment. I said, I got to take a picture of this, or I got someone else to take the picture, there I was the seedstock producer. This lady was the cow-calf. We had the feeder and the packer right here in the state of Florida. And we all were different segments. The packer didn't own those cattle, but he was looking for those cattle. He wanted them. So to me that was just a picture of how we can be coordinated without one end or the other, owning it all the way through.

Mark McCully (00:45:04):
I think that is, when we talk about vertical coordination, I mean there's a case where you had all four parties and everyone was happy. I mean, that's not how our industry was built many times, who can beat up the one on the other side of 'em. But to me maybe that mutual win where everybody actually gets to win and get some margin out of the business and be able to get back and stay in the game, that's what we need to be striving more for. And I think that's a great illustration. I mean, to your point, we need that picture because that exactly what, that's exactly I think how it plays out in a perfect world in this case in reality.

Gordon Stucky (00:45:49):
My only comment is there is nothing more independent in the world than an American cattleman. And these guys that we deal with, they're, you don't tell 'em what to do, but they have many of them been through the school of hard knocks. And I think those families are going to be firmly in place. I totally agree with Kevin that I think that the better communication from top to bottom and lining out marketings and trying to make it the best for everybody, I think people have finally figured out that if it's good for everybody, it's just good.

Kevin Yon (00:46:24):
And in that very picture I failed to mention was even the feeder calf marketeer and he had taken competitive bids and this feedyard said, I'll give you a bid right now. So he was even in the picture, the guy that marketed the calves.

Miranda Reiman (00:46:37):
Yeah, that's fabulous. And you don't see that communication up and down the chain as like you making concessions for other parts of the business or that you're giving anything up by that. That was like a question mark. I realized I didn't ask it like a question.

Kevin Yon (00:46:55):
I think it's a sign of any healthy industry, especially as segmented as we are in the beef industry, that at some point in time every segment needs to be profitable. And we're at that spot right now, and it's not always that way, but we're at that kind of a happy spot where we, of course, we always want a little bigger piece of the pie in the long run. Every segment has to be profitable.

Mark McCully (00:47:22):
When we talk about sustainability and sustainability is first and foremost economic sustainability. And I think at times history of our industry has been hit a home run, hit a home run and some walks and strikeouts and then hit a home run. And that's especially to someone young coming in or someone starting up, one to their banker that probably doesn't look all that attractive. Here's a business model with singles and doubles. You can stay in business a really long time with that approach. And that's maybe a little different. That's a shift in mindset probably where we've traditionally been.

Gordon Stucky (00:47:57):
Evening and out could be so much better for these operations just for everyone.

Kevin Yon (00:48:02):
That's something that we say at our place, whether it's producing bulls or staying in businesses, we say we just got to get on base. We just got to get to first base.

Miranda Reiman (00:48:12):
I heard Joe Goggins speaking on another podcast about how it's easier for farmers to get that kind of, you talk about the banker to get the consistent because their revenue looks a lot more consistent on paper, so it's easier to get started and maybe in farming than it is the cattle business. So perhaps

Mark McCully (00:48:29):
And there's some protections under it,

Miranda Reiman (00:48:30):
Right? Yeah, all of that. Exactly. So perhaps if we look at that as longevity of the business or getting the next generation involved, that's kind of an important note. The more of that communication you have back and forth and the more doubles like you say instead of home runs is maybe a good thing.

Mark McCully (00:48:46):
Kevin, you mentioned earlier about access to genetics and I think that's one of those things. I know as a breed association we think about an awful lot and I truly believe it's one of the roles of the American Angus Association. How big of a threat do you see that access to genetics that you guys get to enjoy today? We heard a speaker talking about aquaculture and intellectual property. We don't talk about intellectual property and beef cattle genetics today, but is that a risk that you see on the horizon? And if so, how do we hedge against that risk?

Kevin Yon (00:49:26):
I'm not sure I can answer how we hedge against it, but I do think we have to recognize that that could be a risk. We don't have to look very far past our dairy neighbors to know. In certain instances, genetics are a bit protected at times. So again, this is a free country and our forefathers' thought to keep it free. And if that's their model of doing business, that's what it is. But I hope in our model as Angus breeders, we can keep access to genetics very open. We have to keep access to information and access to programs. That's a have-to as an organization to keep those open all.

Gordon Stucky (00:50:10):
Yeah, I totally concur with that. Starting to shift a little bit, the cost of using the very top end identified genetics, especially like your AI sires and so on. To me, it's going to continue to climb at maybe a higher rate than we've had recently. And I think there are sure, some producers out there that are willing to pay it. And I think that model is just kind of beginning to take effect. Some of these top end AI sires bring in a ton of money, but yet there's folks that are willing to ante up and use them. And it's just going to be where you're at in the chain of breeding cattle of what value do you need for your own particular operation. But totally agree with Kevin, the access to all the data is key. I think both of us probably will continue to look to American Angus that that is going to be one of the absolute key things that you guys can continue to do full well, knowing that there's probably going to be a curve ball every once in a while as far as certain genetics that might be withheld or something.

Mark McCully (00:51:15):
And to your point, the market is what it is. And I mean, there's always been examples of whether it's a syndicate or things put together, and that's the free market and no one wants to get in the way of that, I don't believe. But to your point of, and again, it's a discussion we've had around is there going to be a time when we look across into the seed business where there's licensing and patents and things like that? And those are the things that probably make us scratch our head a little bit. And I also come back to, again, the role of the association. That's, to me, the hedge against some of that is that strong association that individual members can stay independent and continue to access the information and the services and the programs, whether you've got 20 cows or 2000.

Gordon Stucky (00:52:05):
Absolutely. Yeah. And I guess we're counting on you guys to do that and the current board of directors, and as they go forward, we'll have to sit around the table and kick those ideas around. And I think Kevin and I have been through those chairs and we've kind of passed the torch, but fully feel that that is one of the main responsibilities. And then being able to report as accurate of data as you can give to Kevin and I to go on with our own operations and our customers

Kevin Yon (00:52:35):
In a timely fashion.

Gordon Stucky (00:52:36):
You bet.

Mark McCully (00:52:38):
Because the speed of change is faster than it's ever been, which everything seems to be running at a little faster gear and that's likely not going to change.

Miranda Reiman (00:52:50):
So you've both been at the helm of the American Angus Association board and you've sat through several of those conversations, and I'm sure were preparing for change when you were in those seats too. But what do you see as the relevance of a breed association going forward?

Kevin Yon (00:53:05):
I don't think as a breed we can ever just sit back and say that we're going to be relevant or just plan for it to work out that way. I think it's as a CEO of the American Angus or as a board director or officer, I think you've got to ask yourselves every day, how are we relevant? How are we increasing market share of Angus cattle? Again, we've got to run faster and jump higher. There's the demands. This is a big business. This is a big business, and there's a lot of responsibility, Mark, and my compliments in the way you've handled that responsibility and our compliments to the former boards. But oftentimes, success can build complacency. So we've got to just, we cannot rest. We cannot high five one another at this convention and pat each other on the back. We can and we should celebrate the traditions and celebrate what has been done. But similar to the bovine genome, we know just a little bit about it, but there's so much more that we don't know. We should be talking about things, the bovine respiratory disease, the genetic components of those, the helpfulness of our product. What if we can find those short chain fatty acids and say, this is our product. There's just the sky's limit on what's to do. And so I would just challenge boards to keep us relevant, challenge staffs to keep us relevant and we'll be very successful as an organization.

Gordon Stucky (00:54:49):
One thing that's pretty relevant right now today is the success of the AngusLink program this year. And we went through several years when things didn't turn out like we were hoping they would, it didn't pick up as quick as we thought it would, but it was a program and who knows what the future will be. But CAB didn't just start out with a bang either and so on. But for operations like Kevin and mine where we spend so much time with genetics and trying to be on the leading edge of genetics and identifying calves that are going to be for sale and all the bells and whistles, and like Kevin said, I don't think we're even close yet to what all we could identify with these feeder cattle, but just that one program alone for a seedstock bull producer and to help us with our sales, that's something that will take us years into the future and will just be the gravy for us for being an American Angus member for dotting the I's and crossing the T's, sending in the DNA and doing all the work and providing the marketing system. We got to be the leader. And that's, we're getting there.

Kevin Yon (00:56:03):
And most of us breeders, like Gordon and I, we like talking genetics and we like talking production, but we would be very remiss if we just didn't recognize that there's a hungry world out that wants our product and that's Certified Angus Beef. And when consumers know your product and when restaurateurs and chefs and food service people clamor and want your product, we'll be very successful. We just got to be able to deliver the product that they want. They want it. They're more excited sometime about our product than even we are.

Miranda Reiman (00:56:37):
You've been involved in a lot of those CAB initiatives or gotten the chance to spend some time with chefs and foodservice distributors and those and have seen that firsthand.

Kevin Yon (00:56:47):
And I would stress, anytime any breeder can have any interaction with the consumer or the people that buy our product, it is always rewarding for us, let 'em come to your place, be transparent, show 'em anything they want to see, answer any question that you can accurately. And we have never had a bad experience. And we always feel like as a family, we take more away from those visits than we were able to give the people that we're coming to learn about our product. And I feel like they always leave more excited about our product than when they came.

Miranda Reiman (00:57:24):
I'm certain they do.

Mark McCully (00:57:25):
Yeah. Gordon, I know you've hosted a number of events out there. I've been a part of a few events at your place, bringing end users out to the ranch.

Gordon Stucky (00:57:34):
You bet. You bet. It's just fun to see 'em come off the bus and then what all we can kind of expose 'em to before they get back on the bus is just, to me it is just kind of an experience that we know they'll never forget. And each one is important to us, but it's the people they want to know. We always bring the horses up and so on, and they want to know the names of the horses and they want to know how do you gather cattle? And I know one fellow got off the bus one time and he said, I thought every animal was kept in a 10 foot square pen from the day he was born until the day he was slaughtered. And he couldn't believe the vast expanse. And it's like, well, how big is your place? And it's like, well, we can't see the east end of it, just those types of things that they take back home and hopefully they'll share with all their friends and all those things. And yeah, CAB has been very good to us on working with some of those chef and entrepreneur crews. It's been very, very rewarding.

Mark McCully (00:58:30):
There's always aha moments on those, but I actually remember one of the aha moments was at your place, and you probably don't remember this, you were in a pen. We were talking, I dunno if it was a set of bulls or a set of replacement heifers or something. And the question from an attendee said, are these natural? And I remember either I answered the question or you answered the, we headed down the road of well,

Miranda Reiman (00:58:52):
Implants.

Mark McCully (00:58:52):
Implants. And we started into the spiel as we always did to explain the role. And they said, well, no, no, no, no. They went artificial insemination versus natural service. They thought that's what natural beef was. It was one of those moments where I was like, oh, I did not properly understand the question and I jumped to a conclusion and it was a reminder of at times where those conversations need to start and not fast forward to I was ready to do some 401 level on growth promotants. And they were like, no, I mean, were they natural service or AI? That's all I was really asking here.

Gordon Stucky (00:59:30):
I was just going to say one little quick story. One of the ones I really remember was we were standing out in a wheat pasture field and had a lot of cows and calves around us and we were asked about sustainability.

Mark McCully (00:59:41):
I remember this one too.

Gordon Stucky (00:59:43):
They said, Gordon, so what's your definition of sustainability? And I thought for a moment, and I said, my grandparents started at the turn of century and we're still here in 2000, whatever year that was. And I said, in my opinion, that's sustainability.

Mark McCully (01:00:00):
I well remember that. And it was as impactful of a definition of sustainability and it's true of a definition of sustainability as could have been given. And no doubt you made an impact on that group of folks that were there that day.

Miranda Reiman (01:00:13):
Yeah, I bet they all remember that definition.

Mark McCully (01:00:16):
They probably repeated it a time or two.

Miranda Reiman (01:00:19):
Well, we've covered quite a bit of ground here and I do want you guys to have a chance to go experience the rest of the trade show and maybe get some business done before it closes up. Is there anything that we haven't asked you about that you wanted to add before I get to the random question? No peeking. Mark. Did we cover everything you wanted to cover? It was

Mark McCully (01:00:37):
Great. You know me, we could keep going for a couple hours on this.

Miranda Reiman (01:00:41):
I do have to cut him off sometimes. That's true. All right. Random question of the week. What's the biggest risk you've ever taken? I'll give you a moment to think about it.

Kevin Yon (01:00:52):
I'll start. The biggest risk we ever took was my wife and I taking three children less than three years old and buying a farm and buying a herd of Angus cattle. And in the mid nineties, interest was high, feed was high, fuel was high. Cattle were fairly cheap, but we believed in what we were doing and we believed in each other. And that risk has been a huge reward. We still have debts to pay, but it was, we took that risk and it's a risk that I'm so thankful that we took and never really even had any question during it had we done the right thing. And that little a hundred acres and that little a hundred head of cattle have afforded our family a wonderful way to live and hopefully a start of a legacy. But I like risk and I encourage young people or whoever to take risk.

Miranda Reiman (01:01:56):
Good. And so you say interest was high and fuel was high. I would say optimism was also high at that point.

Kevin Yon (01:02:03):
Yes.

Miranda Reiman (01:02:03):
So risk. How about you, Gordon?

Gordon Stucky (01:02:06):
So the risk, Kevin and I are roughly the same age. I'm tick older Kevin, I know that. But our risks as we've gone along just continue to get larger and larger and larger as far as talking about the number of dollars and the risks. So the risks that we took early on in our career, probably financially almost seemed insignificant to some of the risks that we have to take today. But for me, I mean if you want to kind of tag team on that start, I paid $350 for a heifer calf when I was 16 years old and I didn't have the $350, but then 18 months later, her first bull calf brings $1,500 and it was the risk and reward that got me on fire for the business. And I don't know if there's anything today that's going to maybe compare to that because that was so dramatic. If you think back in the terms of what money was worth in 1976, that making four to five times on your money with a little bit of feed expense is all. And that's kind of what set me on fire for the breed and the business and so on.

Kevin Yon (01:03:09):
You're hooked from there.

Gordon Stucky (01:03:10):
And we are, but we face a lot of risk year in and year out. We continue to, I mean, I know Kevin's operation, we talk quite a bit and it does. We're in a risky business. Weather risks, you learn to deal with it.

Kevin Yon (01:03:24):
It's not for the faint of heart, absolutely no agriculture's not.

Miranda Reiman (01:03:29):
Well, we're grateful that you take those risks and that you're in this business. We appreciate all your contributions and appreciate having you guys as breeders that we can call on to visit with and learn from.

Mark McCully (01:03:41):
You guys are both truly thought leaders. You've both served in leadership roles and continue I know to be thought leaders across this breed and we really, really appreciate you guys, appreciate you joining us here today and sharing your story and your thoughts on where we're going from here. So thanks for being with us.

Gordon Stucky (01:03:59):
We appreciate you and all you guys do and telling our stories and moving things forward. Thank you.

Kevin Yon (01:04:05):
Thank you. The joy has been all mine.

Miranda Reiman (01:04:07):
Thanks for listening today. For more coverage on Angus Convention, be sure to watch upcoming editions of the Angus Journal. And to make sure that you never miss an episode, go ahead and subscribe in your favorite podcast platform. This has been The Angus Conversation, an Angus Journal podcast.