Create Your Type of Angus — Gabriel and Uhrig on Breeding Strategies, New Perspectives and Having a Voice

HOSTS: Mark McCully and Miranda Reiman

Friendships that form over Angus cattle are the type that stand the test of time. Hear from long-time friends and fellow South Dakota Angus breeders TJ Gabriel, Deep Creek Angus; and David Uhrig, Mt. Rushmore Angus, as they discuss what they’re asking their Angus cows to do. They talk maternal, terminal, weaning weights and calving ease, along with ways they’ve gotten involved with the breed at both at a regional and national level.

GUESTS: TJ Gabriel and David Uhrig

TJ Gabriel, his wife, Jeanine, and their family own and operate Deep Creek Angus. TJ’s great-great grandfather homesteaded near Midland, S.D., where they now have 250 registered Angus cows. They host a “Ranch Bred, Ranch Fed” production sale in Philip, S.D., each February and sell private treaty heifers in the fall.

David Uhrig’s history in the Angus breed dates to his grandfather’s ranch in Nebraska. He went to the University of Nebraska and held various jobs before joining the Mt. Rushmore Angus crew in 2006. Today he manages the 500-cow Hermosa, S.D., ranch that’s owned by brothers Marty and Eddie Rypkema, and they have an annual production sale each February. 

SPONSOR NOTE: 
This episode is brought to you by CAM Ranches and Ogeechee Farms. To learn more about their April 13th Southern Synergy sale visit: www.southernsynergyangus.com 

Don't miss news in the Angus breed. Visit www.AngusJournal.net and subscribe to the AJ Daily e-newsletter and our monthly magazine, the Angus Journal.

Transcript

Miranda Reiman (00:00:02):

Welcome to the Angus Conversation. I'm your host Miranda Reiman with my co-host, Mark McCully, CEO of the American Angus Association. How are you doing today, Mark?

Mark McCully (00:00:11):

Good. We had another really excellent conversation with a couple guys out of South Dakota

Miranda Reiman (00:00:18):

And after that conversation you've got a little bit of homework to do. I understand.

Mark McCully (00:00:22):

Yeah. Yeah. TJ pushed back on some things that relative to some data that I need to go back and I promised him some follow-up and maybe even another episode of the conversation and maybe even a webinar or something. So yeah, it'll be good stuff. We like that.

Miranda Reiman (00:00:40):

Absolutely. Right now, it's probably top of mind for me because at the time of this recording, we are putting to bed the April Angus Journal, so tomorrow we'll send that off to the printer and of course we've got to be quite a bit ahead of time to get that done. But it makes me think of how we get our story ideas, and a lot of those story ideas actually come from when producers ask us a question.

Mark McCully (00:01:02):

Absolutely. Whether they're conversations in the barn or in the pasture or at a convention or in a podcast. So we always invite that. We always want to make sure that we're covering topics, whether that's guests on this podcast or columns and articles in the Journal or things that we're maybe putting out on webinars, all those things, those all have their origins in questions or comments or suggestions that we've gotten along the way. So those are gold to us.

Miranda Reiman (00:01:32):

And I always note this, or a lot of times I note this at the end of the podcast, but I'm going to say this at the beginning because I think season four, we've had probably the most feedback we've gotten either in text messages or emails or comments from producers commenting back, and we love to hear those and we're not just saying, please send us the kudos and when we do good, although I do really like those. Yeah, go ahead and send us ideas you have or people that you want to hear on the podcast. So that's how we get these episodes, but I think you're really going to enjoy this one. It's a couple of friends, I guess I didn't realize they were as close of friends is what they are.

Mark McCully (00:02:10):

That's true. I went in knowing that TJ and David are friends, and I knew they knew each other fairly well. What I didn't know, as we later found out, they talked very, very frequently. So this was just kind of picking up from probably a conversation they had earlier in the afternoon and we got to jump in and listen and be a part of it.

Miranda Reiman (00:02:31):

Yeah, just imagine we're eavesdropping on TJ Gabriel and David Uhrig. Today in the podcast we've got two guests that hail from South Dakota and are I guess by South Dakota standards, almost neighbors. We've got Mount Rushmore Angus, that would be David Uhrig's manager up there, and then to the northeast, I guess there at Deep Creek Angus, we've got TJ Gabriel. So thanks for joining us today, guys.

David Uhrig (00:03:00):

You bet. My pleasure. Yep.

TJ Gabriel (00:03:02):

Thanks for having us.

Miranda Reiman (00:03:03):

And I guess in order, that was David first and TJ second, so if you're trying to distinguish between the two voices on the podcast, why don't you go ahead, David, and start out by telling us a little bit about your history in the Angus business, how you got there at Mount Rushmore, Angus, a little bit of your operation, just kind of the backstory.

David Uhrig (00:03:23):

I was born and raised in Panhandle in Nebraska. My grandfather started an Angus operation and Hemingford, Nebraska as most Angus breeders back there. Long ways back, we didn't originally start with Angus cattle. There was multiple breeds involved there. Some Hereford, there was some Limousin, there was some Simmental, a little bit of everything. And then they landed on Angus cattle. That was a long time before me. My grandfather passed in '84 I believe it was, and my dad's family operated that ranch until the spring of 91. And then a multitude of reasons. There was several siblings involved and some debt overload, and

Mark McCully (00:04:15):

That was a tough time.

David Uhrig (00:04:17):

Multiple stuff from the eighties. I mean, it was just a tough time. So consequently they sold that place in 91. My dad, my folks were married in early eighties and then divorced by that point. My brother and I grew up in a divorced household. My dad did everything he could to keep cows in our lives. Sometimes we wonder why, but long story that we each had our own cow herd at the very young age and grew up with them. I guess kind of fast forward several decades there. Went to college at the University of Nebraska. My first job was short-lived, was on a commercial operation at home. And then I went to work for the state of Nebraska actually operating deer check stations in Nebraska.

Miranda Reiman (00:05:13):

That's an interesting job. You probably meet some characters that way.

David Uhrig (00:05:17):

Yeah, that was interesting. I met a multitude of people, all great people, but different walks of life and it was interesting. And then consequently landed here in 2006, October of 2006 and been here ever since, was married in 2011 and I've got two kids. My in-laws live down the creek from me, 20 miles or so I suppose. Been here ever since and loved every minute of it.

Mark McCully (00:05:54):

And Mount Rushmore, correct me, David owned by a couple brothers, the Rypkema brothers, is that correct?

David Uhrig (00:05:59):

Yes. Yes. Marty and Eddie, Milo started this, somewhere in the pile back here, I've got the original sale book. He bought 'em brought like 11 cows or seven cows, I don't remember exactly, from _______ Cattle company and that's how he got his start and he started just outside of Hermosa and they've grown into now where we are running this year, it's a little bit different. We're coming out of several dry years there, but approximately 400 mother cows and 120 replacements. And then annually we sell anywhere from a hundred to 120 bulls. I think

Mark McCully (00:06:42):

Just came off your 58th sale. Did I record that right? That's what your book said, so

David Uhrig (00:06:48):

Yeah, well, it's got to be right. That's a challenge for me to remember, but that's what the book says. Yeah.

(00:06:57):

Yeah, it was a great sale. It was a beautiful day about today. I don't know what the weather's like there, but it was very similar today, 60 degrees, not much wind. Beautiful day.

Miranda Reiman (00:07:07):

That's great because you guys there in South Dakota had not that kind of weather last year for sale season, right? I don't know what your sale was like, but if somebody had a record for the most canceled sales, it had to be Rod Geppert, I'm sure of it

David Uhrig (00:07:22):

Unfortunately, we fell on that hatchet block too. TJ gets the brunt of the weather. He flips me a lot of grief about living in the banana belt, but I'm not complaining that I want his weather any better. But yeah, last year was tough. We did cancel ours because of a blizzard and the day of we were darn sure glad we did.

Miranda Reiman (00:07:44):

Well then you were due that 60, 68 degree weather. So

David Uhrig (00:07:48):

Yeah. Yeah. I suppose you're

Miranda Reiman (00:07:51):

TJ, you're looking skeptical that he doesn't deserve that. Why don't you give us a little rundown of your operation and your history in the business? TJ

TJ Gabriel (00:08:00):

Very similar to David's, my family homesteaded on the ranch that I live in 1906. My great great grandfather came from Norway, so I'm the fifth generation. My kids are the sixth and now we have a grandkid that is the seventh on the ranch. So we're kind of proud of that. My great great grand.

Mark McCully (00:08:20):

I don't think you look old enough to have grandkids, but maybe you just started early. I don't know.

Miranda Reiman (00:08:25):

I was going to say that, but I didn't want it to sound like I was doing math in my head or anything.

TJ Gabriel (00:08:34):

They're a lot funner than kids.

Mark McCully (00:08:38):

I've heard that many times. Should have had 'em first, right?

Miranda Reiman (00:08:40):

Yeah. Of all the grandpas I interview, that tends to be the unanimous sentiment.

TJ Gabriel (00:08:46):

That's great. And we were a commercial outfit, went through all the trends, the Herefords, the Charolais, the Limousin when they came in, and then we finally landed on black cows with Hereford bulls. And then I went to college and I worked for a family by the name of Reich Charolais Ranch all through college. And I learned a lot from the Reich family. They were great people, great stalwarts, but I knew I wanted to do the seedstock, but Charolais was not my bag. I guess, nothing against Charolais, but I kind of like black cows. So anyway, when I came back from college, I worked for a lady by the name of Bonnie Sivage, and she had kind of a storied herd in Central South Dakota. She'd built by herself and was just a tremendous mentor for me. She was a very strong woman and I learned a lot from Bonnie.

(00:09:40):

And so then I started the seedstock. So I was a first generation seedstock, held my first sale when I was 21 years old. I knew nothing. I had no customers. We learned everything the hard way I guess you could say. And so then this year we hosted our 25th, which was pretty cool for our family. And my family's grown up with it. Me and Jeanine got married in 2008, so she's been here for a lot of the sales too and our kids. And it's a family operation, just family help. We run about 250 cows and then about 65 replacement heifers. And we annually sell about 70 bulls at our annual sale.

Miranda Reiman (00:10:25):

I hear you say that you were 21, your first sale had no customers. Were you either an incredible risk taker or an eternal optimist? You got to be one or the other,

TJ Gabriel (00:10:35):

Maybe stupid.

Miranda Reiman (00:10:39):

You were going to say maybe both.

TJ Gabriel (00:10:45):

I didn't know anything about the business. Just what I had learned from Tim and from Bonnie, and both were great. I don't know that they were salespeople, but they were great. People drifted to them. They liked them, they wanted to do business with them. And I think that that's what I tried to portray. I guess maybe going into the first sale was just hopefully guys would come and want to do business with us.

Mark McCully (00:11:15):

Well, and in your last sale book you charted your 25 years, that was really cool to look at and I would think look back with a lot of pride and maybe like holy cow, if I remember I wrote it down here, your first sale, you sold seven bulls and an average $1,692. Yep. And your last sale, you sold 73 bulls, an average ten six. So pretty nice trajectory there and congratulations on that. But that's got to be pretty cool to look back. I mean first generation getting in, starting from nothing to where you are in 25 years and 25 years is a long time, but in this business that's pretty fast rise to the level that you've gotten to. So that's pretty cool. Congratulations.

TJ Gabriel (00:12:03):

Great people. If you heard my speech, the day of the sale we had on our front of our catalog, we had a 25 year sticker. And I made the comment that it wasn't about that sticker, it was about the 24 years it took to get there and all the people we met along the way. And that truly is what it is to us. It's all about the people.

Mark McCully (00:12:29):

So you guys ranch and run about two hours from each other. Talk about that part of the country. What's the best part of running cows in that part of the country? And you guys are explaining maybe it's not, I think of it all, similar country, maybe it's a little bit different as you guys see it, but what's the best part of running cows in that country?

TJ Gabriel (00:12:48):

David has beautiful weather all the time.

David Uhrig (00:12:54):

Yeah, well up here in the banana belt, let me tell you,

TJ Gabriel (00:12:57):

On the prairie we have a whole open set.

David Uhrig (00:13:02):

Yeah, I'm not going to lie. I live in a bubble up here. I get Mark's been here, we get views to the west looking at the black hills and views to the east, looking at the Badlands as far as scenic, we've got a guy that helps us periodically off and on. He's from Minnesota. One of the first times he was out here, he made the comment to me, he says, man, he says, you get tired of one view, all you got to do is go over a hill and you got a whole nother view.

Miranda Reiman (00:13:31):

It's not that way where TJ lives. No, I've traveled a lot of South Dakota.

David Uhrig (00:13:39):

We're pretty fortunate as far as operating here, it's different than what I grew up with in Nebraska, but it's the people that make this so great. I mean they're truly independent. It's a short grass prairie area or parts of it are mixed grass. And we've got customers from eastern Wyoming, eastern Montana to Minnesota and Iowa. We did send some bulls down to New Mexico, which is, that's a challenge in itself, delivering them down there. I was scratching my head thinking this is not going to end well for us. And they were there religiously for several years. And then I think there was a passing of one of the brothers and that thing just kind of changed directions and life and everything like that. But we operate, I guess I like to think we operate, we try to mimic the commercial operation operators as much as we can.

(00:14:42):

We've got native grass that we summer on dams that they utilize for drinking water in a very good mineral program. So we expect these cows do a lot breed back in a timely fashion. And that in itself has been a challenge the last five years. We've spent three years of drought and having to buy all that hay, you're really never sure what you're getting when you're buying hay. And so that was tough for us. And everybody goes through droughts, but it seems like it gets worse every time it comes around. Or maybe I'm just getting older. I don't know what the difference is. Most of my life seems like I spent in a drought growing up and I don't know. I don't know what the deal is, but we're still kind of reeling from some of those mistakes, I guess, along the way. But we're getting back there and cows are breeding up and moving forward.

(00:15:42):

This calf crop looks really good this spring and we've had banana belt weather again, very mild winter. TJ got blasted with some great Canadian cold here, I don't know, in January, and it kind of held on there, but he had some snow to hold it and we just haven't seen much snow. It comes and goes and the wind, we get the wind. That's pretty common. But the cows, the size of the cows are very indicative to the environment, I feel like. I mean, we can get some big ones, we can get some small ones. We kind of shoot for 13 and a half, 1400 pound mature cow, and she's asked to do a lot. The calves. This part of the world doesn't really start calve until about now, middle to the end of March. A lot of the fall run six weight calves and Octobers when you see people shipping out of this country.

Mark McCully (00:16:36):

So tj, was it your great grandparents that homesteaded there first or great, great. Did I miss it?

TJ Gabriel (00:16:42):

Great. Great. Yep. Great. Great, great,

Mark McCully (00:16:43):

Great. Yes. What made 'em stop the wagon there in Midland?

TJ Gabriel (00:16:48):

I think the wheel fell off. Literally. I have no idea. We're in the heart of grass one year in my catalog it said anybody can love the mountains, but it takes the soul to love the prairie. And I think that's

Miranda Reiman (00:17:04):

That's a great Willa Cather quote. I love that

TJ Gabriel (00:17:06):

I think there's a lot of truth in that. I mean we are in the heart of cow country. I mean there's cows all around us. That's all. There's farming too, but I mean literally huge herds of cattle and a lot of great ranches. And so yeah, having a bull sale, it's not always easy. But we've got a captive audience here. We're selling to a lot of big commercial outfits and most of our bulls stay right, pretty local. I mean maybe two, three hours away would be a long trip for us, but pretty localized. But yeah, hard western wheatgrass country. But we do get some terrible weather, like everywhere. I mean everybody has their challenges, but David's sale day was 60 some and mine was 20 below and it was only two days.

Mark McCully (00:18:01):

You guys are a couple days apart, right?

TJ Gabriel (00:18:03):

That's only two days apart, so

David Uhrig (00:18:07):

Yeah. Yeah.

TJ Gabriel (00:18:08):

But that

David Uhrig (00:18:08):

Was just 20 below in the morning. I mean

TJ Gabriel (00:18:10):

By the afternoon it warmed up. Yeah, it warmed up to zero. Yeah, it was.

Miranda Reiman (00:18:16):

The good news is if you both stay around there, that means your customers are already used to that weather too. Yeah,

TJ Gabriel (00:18:23):

Most guys, I mean as long as they can get to the sale, some days a nice day isn't always good because they think, well, we got to stay home and work. So you don't want a blizzard, but maybe a little cold. So they're more tempted to go to town

Mark McCully (00:18:45):

Guys. I know both of you're very involved officers in the Black Hills Angus Association. I know David, you mentioned when I came out to your place there, it was a couple of years ago to speak there to the association, very active association. Talk about why you're a part of that and the importance of the regional associations and some of the things you guys are focused on.

David Uhrig (00:19:07):

I guess I look at the regional associations or for us is kind of an arm to the Angus Association in the fall we do national convention. There's delegates from the state that get it going, partake and see and learn. And I guess one thing I think that these regional associations, specifically the Black Hills Angus Association needs to do is try to bring as much of that as they can back and share it with the membership. I mean Mark, and that's been kind of a goal, is to try to get some of you guys out to explain this because you leave it up to me to explain it, man, there ain't enough crayons to get that job done.

(00:19:51):

That's how I perceive it. I don't know, TJ might see that a little bit different. I thoroughly enjoy the people. So being a part of that is important to me. From a social aspect, it's important to me. There's too many great people in this world, in my opinion, to stay at home and not mingle with some of those great people. They all have their place and I don't know if that's the right term or how to describe it, but they're very good at what they do. Every one of 'em. And just to know them, to meet them, to learn about their operations or from coast to coast, we've, through the Angus Convention, have met fantastic people.

Mark McCully (00:20:38):

TJ, do you see it any different from a regional or specifically the Black Hills Group?

TJ Gabriel (00:20:43):

No, I mean I was president of the Black Hills for 14 years until David took over. I finally just gave up. I said, you take him for a while,

Miranda Reiman (00:20:54):

He was going to be a grandpa, so they kicked him out.

TJ Gabriel (00:20:58):

And I served on the state board also and the regional associations were created for the tours to host the tours. And that was I think their original purpose. But our group, the Black Hills group has been really focused on scholarships and a lot of youth. But David has changed that a little bit, which I think has been for the best. I kind of got in a rut and David kind of started bringing in speakers. Mark came and Kelli Retallick and we've had some great learning experiences through that. But the people, it's all about the people. I think when we started going to national convention, when it first moved from Louisville, a bunch of us started going and it's been tremendous to meet all the people and make relationships all over the country. And that's essentially why you become a part of association is really for the relationships. I mean, we all get really busy with life and on our ranch and it's pretty easy to get in a rut. And I think just being involved has been a great thing for us.

Miranda Reiman (00:22:09):

Is that how you two met was through the association or did you know each other prior to that?

David Uhrig (00:22:15):

I got introduced at the banquet, I think it was was banquet one year, wasn't it TJ? Milo? Yeah. But then I think officially I finally met Jud's dispersal. Yeah. And how long ago was that? I mean, that's been TJ and I talk, this is our job wives, we talk daily or three times a day.

Mark McCully (00:22:38):

Do you really?

TJ Gabriel (00:22:38):

Three or four times a day probably.

David Uhrig (00:22:41):

Yeah. Yeah. I'll be honest, I had this in my calendar tonight and I thought it was another day, I called you TJ. It was my wife that reminded me. I think Mark actually, Mark you sent the text and I was like, oh, that's not right. I got in my calendar as another day and then, I dunno, I was wandering, bumping around in here a little bit ago and Rachel's like, well, isn't your deal at six? And I'm like, God, I forgot it twice today.

Miranda Reiman (00:23:14):

We'll try not to take any offense to that. We're lucky we got you, man,

David Uhrig (00:23:19):

You guys, it was

Miranda Reiman (00:23:21):

That's funny. So what do you talk about that many times a day? I can't let that go, Mark.

Mark McCully (00:23:26):

Well, I know that. Yeah.

David Uhrig (00:23:28):

Do you really want to know? I have to listen to twice a day that how I live in the banana belt. That's what most of

TJ Gabriel (00:23:36):

Wives don't understand what we could have so much to talk about. We seem to find plenty of topics,

Mark McCully (00:23:42):

But maybe they're a little relieved that you don't wear them out talking about cows all the time. You got somebody else to talk cows with.

David Uhrig (00:23:50):

Ironically enough, we're on both sides. I hear this. The other one has to listen to us when cattle are out too. So I mean they get the good and the bad when we're, we're conversing back and forth, but

Miranda Reiman (00:24:05):

Oh, that's great.

Mark McCully (00:24:05):

I appreciate both your guys' leadership with the Black Hills and what you're doing. I think the two main points you guys kind of highlighted one, the need for connection and just we just coming together. You don't ever want to lose that. And I think that information dissemination too. I mean I think more and more as we talk about how do we continue to help get members the information they want, we do things like podcasts and such, but I tell you the state and the regional associations are so important to do those. And I'm headed to one in a couple days. I try to get to as many, I will say yours. I think I stood up there in front of that crowd for what, two, two and a half hours and got peppered with questions. David, it is not an easy crowd. I'll tell you. It's not an easy crowd, but I enjoyed it.

David Uhrig (00:24:57):

Yeah, you handled yourself really well. There can be some ruffians out here. There's no question.

Mark McCully (00:25:03):

They just saw fresh meat and took advantage of it. That's okay.

Miranda Reiman (00:25:07):

Well it must not have been so bad, you sent Kelli out there the next year, so

Mark McCully (00:25:11):

Well, Kelli's way tougher than I am. I knew she'd be fine. She'd be fine.

David Uhrig (00:25:14):

Yeah. And Kelli, we moved the location that year and we might've dropped part of the crowd that was after you Mark, I don't know.

Miranda Reiman (00:25:23):

Hold that thought for just a moment. As we hear from today's sponsor

Speaker 5 (00:25:28):

In the registered Angus business, elite females are not accidents. Designing elite females requires a consistent disciplined focus and that effort will be on display at the 17th annual Southern Synergy Female Sale. Join us Saturday, April 13th at noon at Ogeechee Farms to see what we and Cam ranches have to offer. Bid in person or online. Find out more about the Southern Synergy Female sale at southernsynergyangus.com

Miranda Reiman (00:25:55):

And we thank Southern Synergy for bringing us this episode. Now back to David and TJ.

Mark McCully (00:26:01):

Let's get into talking Angus cattle. As you guys think of just coming off your bull customers, what are the priorities of your bull customer? What do they need? What are you trying to produce for 'em?

TJ Gabriel (00:26:12):

I ultrasound, preg check about 30,000 head of cows and heifers in the fall for customers and friends and whatever. Over the last 25 years, we've seen a really dramatic change in pregnancy rates. I mean, when I started, if you were four or five, 6% open, you were probably the norm. And now we're more like 12, 13, 14% open. And there are all sorts of reasons, droughts, whatever. But on average our fertility is weakened. So I think as we progress, something gives, I mean, and it has, we know that as a breed, we know that as bull producers. And I think that's why Angus is focused on functional longevity, which is good. We started putting in, our catalog in our program is very maternal based. We're all about the cows. We're all about female productivity, longevity, performance. And so my guys look at weaning weights and they look at, and it's two things.

(00:27:17):

One is we put in body weight and weaning weight ratios. So actually what the cow has produced that year for pounds of weight. And the other one is how many years? First cycle service that cow stuck and it is amazing to me, how many guys just drift to that? They want to know, did that cow stick 10 for 10 in the first cycle or four for four? A lot of the comments this year, that was what they focused on was longevity of the cow, how many Pathfinders were in the pedigree and what her body weight to weaning weight ratio was. And so I think as we progressed, I think our customers are very focused on that. They want these cattle to last longer and they want 'em to produce more

Mark McCully (00:28:03):

TJ, when you look at that trend and open rates, do you think the cows are bigger than their environment can support? Do you think it's more actual infertility? Do you have any theories?

TJ Gabriel (00:28:22):

I think it's a multitude of things that have culminated, our cow herd has gotten somewhat bigger in size, not out here. I mean, everybody talks about the 1100 pound cow. Well, they don't exist very rarely. I mean, you look in the sale barn reports, there aren't many of those left. So our cows have gotten bigger, but not for our environment. I mean, they're still very environmental friendly, but I think we ask a lot of these cows, we ask 'em to breed in a very short period of time anymore to produce a big calf and do it regardless of what the weather is, whether it's a drought or whether, but I think as general, just in general, our fertility has weakened over the years. I mean, I hate to say it as a breeder, but it is true. I mean, I think we lost focus somewhere along the way. We maybe traded this for that. And I think we really need to get back and I'm glad the association, I don't know if the functional longevity EPD is the answer, but it's a step in the right direction to give these guys some guidance because we need to really do need to focus on fertility and longevity in these cattle.

Mark McCully (00:29:45):

David, how about on your side? What are you hearing from your bull customers or what are you trying to give them in the bulls that you're producing?

David Uhrig (00:29:52):

We're in a similar situation where most of our clienteles sell calves in the fall. We don't have very many guys that retain calves and background and or feed 'em. We followed a lot of our own cattle through the feed yard the last 5, 6, 7 years. We know consistently what our herd can do as well as can't do. They saw sorts of weather, so we saw the good and the bad. As far as our customer base goes, I would say we have a little bit of a different type of clientele than maybe what TJ's looking for. And I'm not knocking anything at all because everything that TJ does I think is a good thing. I don't always list first service AI. We do production records on the cows in the catalog. And so the one thing I guess I'm after, and for the most part that's what our customer base is after, is production from the standpoint of total pounds in the fall.

(00:30:54):

I mean that's what they're selling. We've got a high percentage of our customers buy their heifers, so they aren't even breeding their own heifers. So they are just looking strictly to make heavy calves in the fall. But I echo exactly some of TJ's concerns. I see it here. I've seen it in my own personal cows. The open percentage is climbing all the time and we run a higher percentage opens, but we're so hard on 'em. These cows, we're wanting them to do this in 45 days and we want 'em to wean off 700 pound calves. And for my operation, TJ gives me a lot of flak, but I don't want to put a lot of feed out in front of these cattle. We've got the grazing capability. I expect them to go out and hustle and take care of themselves and wean that calf. Sometimes I might push that line a little too much.

(00:31:55):

We get 4, 5, 6 inches of snow. I'm not afraid to make them hustle a little bit after the calves are off and do what cows are supposed to do. I think that is a bearing on that. I think those we're asking them to do a lot and I don't know if they can do everything we're asking 'em to do. I don't know. Cows have taught me a lot about life and one of the things that has always amazed me, I grew up with the idea and the understanding and that we've got to be on top of that calf when he is born and we got to get him to the barn and we got to do all this and that and we changed our operation when it's nice here in the banana belt, we can pasture calve these cows and they seem to do extremely well. And it always amazed me how well they do do. They can hold their condition, they can take care of themselves. It's kind of comical to watch. It's comical and interesting and sad all at the same time. I've got some club calf stuff I'm playing with for the kids, so they've got some calves to show at the county fair and they're different colored. Yeah. Yeah. This is something I don't always admit, but now

Mark McCully (00:33:08):

It's public.

Miranda Reiman (00:33:08):

Your secret is out,

David Uhrig (00:33:11):

But it's a

Mark McCully (00:33:13):

Closet steer jock. Go ahead.

Miranda Reiman (00:33:15):

I think I see a headline coming,

David Uhrig (00:33:17):

I dunno about a steer jock, but as long as it's a cow, we had some white calves and I mean these cows have never seen anything but a black calf in their life and they lose their minds over this white calf running through. I don't know if they think it's a coyote, I don't know. And it takes a couple weeks and I mean even then if you got 150 in one group, a hundred of them are used to it and 50 of them aren't. And we're going to brand this week and I still got cows that do not want that white calf and inside a 60 feet in front of them. I mean just so it's interesting to watch them cows and how they function and survive on their own without me intervening or us intervening and we're still on top of stuff as they calve and if they got problems, we're dealing with it.

(00:34:08):

That's not like we're kicking 'em out and don't look at 'em. But I don't know where that fine line is for productivity and getting cattle to breed back and things like that. I don't even know what's causing it. We like to say, well, it's the drought or it's the mineral program or it was too hot or it's too cold or that's what some of we can control. So we like to think we can control it. And at the end of the day, sometimes the good Lord's got to have his share too. So I don't know how you explain it. And I think we can get all the geneticists involved we want. At the end of the day, we still aren't going to have it figured out.

Mark McCully (00:34:50):

Well fertility, it is. You got to know. I mean, it's lowly heritable. Not to say that there's not a genetic component to it, right? I mean, but it's not as easy as making progress in things like weaning weight or a carcass trait with a high heritability. But that's not to say that we can't and shouldn't be paying a whole lot of attention to it. And again, I probably expose my bias and my question pretty quick. I tend to think that is it just the amount of performance that are in some of these cows and the metabolism and just the size of these cows with the nutrition that the genetics have changed probably quite a bit in the last 30 or 40 years. I'm not sure. Your grass has changed a whole lot. Right. And so is that what's contributing to this? I mean I also can't help but ask it. Have your commercial customers become more of a straight bred Angus program? I mean, is there anything about this that there's not much heterosis in play anymore? Or have your customers been pretty much straight Angus outfits in that part of the world?

David Uhrig (00:35:56):

For us, I would say yes, that definitely plays part of it. This part of the area, I can think of one producer in particular, but up till 25 years ago, maybe 30 years ago, he was putting Longhorn bulls on these cows specifically as heifers. Now that's a big Hereford family, so there's still Hereford cows floating through there, but now it's all black. So yes, I think some of what you're getting at Mark is, is definitely alive and well up here. Nebraska was a little bit different, but up here there was a lot of sheep that bought this country and Hereford cows paid for it. And now we're switching everything to Angus. And TJ probably has similar stories.

TJ Gabriel (00:36:47):

Yeah, you can go ahead and say that that was your in-laws. You don't have to. It doesn't have to be a family secret. Yeah. But no, I would agree with that. I mean, our cattle have become more straight Angus as we've progressed over the last 25 years. There was always a lot of Hereford cattle floating around here and Continentals too when that fad come through. But yeah, everybody's pretty well straight bred anymore.

Mark McCully (00:37:21):

Neither one of you guys mentioned calving ease once in hearing what your bull customers looking for. And when we look at our survey data, we continually will see calving ease is the number one criteria that bull buyers are looking at. So David, you're smirking. So there's clearly, you guys have had a lot of debate on where we need to be calving ease and birth weight for your bull customers.

David Uhrig (00:37:49):

I've got my personal feelings on calving ease and let's look at the facts. I mean, our average producer is not getting any younger, they're running more total cows for quote unquote farm size. So calving ease is alive and well, and it's a real problem. Me personally, I don't always get this from our bull customers, but it can be percentage of 'em believe it, Angus cows, not a calving ease breed. We've done a very good job of convincing these guys. I feel that they could have calving problems. I still boil back to the fact that calving ease is a percent length of gestation and that's not entirely it, but we can track where we AI these cows and TJ can do the same thing. We know when our due date is and all of our cows are synchronized. So we can follow these cows and we can say, okay, yep, today's the due date and we'll give 'em about another four days. And then after that we may start to see problems because they're quote unquote baking those calves. And that's a double-edged sword because sometimes some of those biggest calves are your heaviest calves in the fall.

(00:39:17):

But we go back to, how many commercial producers really know what their calves weigh at birth. They say they want calving ease, but I don't know if they truly know. And that's not an insult to the industry at all, but I know we don't have any commercial producers that weigh their calves. I can think of one neighbor over here that does, and he operates just like a registered operation. But man, as a general rule, they sure don't know what their calves weigh. So what they perceive as an 80 pound calf might actually be a 70 pound calf and then they're just continuing to pile on that calving ease or light birth weight in this case most of the time. But we just don't, for me, I don't see a lot of calving ease problems in our herd. Like I said, we've got 400 cows turned out there and when it's warm, they're going to have to calve through the night and do it on their own. And this year we had two cows that had problems. The heifers or the twos and threes are obviously up closer. That's your problem group. And so I think that's some of why guys buy their heifers in this part of the world or they buy 'em as two year olds after they've had their first calf, so on and so, so forth. So I don't get back to your original question Mark. I don't get near the emphasis on calving ease that we used to.

Mark McCully (00:40:43):

Is it maybe just a given now they're buying Angus bulls from you, they're not going to have calving troubles. So

David Uhrig (00:40:48):

Could be either that or I've done a really good job of convincing them they don't need 60 pound calves on everything. And I think it's more of the given, I don't know that I can convince anybody of anything. But

Miranda Reiman (00:41:00):

I was thinking, TJ, you're probably shaking your head at that as yes, for sure. Since you've got the maternal messaging and all of your, I mean, that's something you focus on already is making sure the cows can do it on their own.

TJ Gabriel (00:41:13):

Yeah, yeah. We use calving ease sires and obviously we need calving ease bulls in our sale, but for the most part, we don't have any much dystocia or calving troubles. But the young guys in our program, they AI their heifers, so we can use calving ease bulls that way. The older guys aren't calving heifers, so they don't need calving ease bulls and they're just turning out on cows. So I think if you looked at my sale report, I don't know that there's a calving ease bull in that sale report. I think they were all performance maternal driven bulls. I, and I think calving ease is great, but it's the 20 pound basketball the cow can't have, but the 200 pound snake, she can't. So if your calves are structurally and phenotypically built right, you don't have much trouble. And for the most part, I think that's one thing. You look at David's program and our program, and I'm kind of a, I love the old school little bitty baby doll Angus heads and David's, I go through his cow herd and I see it there and I see it here, but a lot of breeders got away from those nice, beautiful headed Angus cattle.

(00:42:32):

We've got a broader base skull now and a lot of these cattle, and I think calving ease troubles come with that, but for the most part, our guys, they don't worry about it. I think they want as many pounds as they can get in the fall and raise a good cow.

David Uhrig (00:42:51):

I'll add this caveat, we say that, but it's sometimes darn tough to sell a110 pound bull too.

Miranda Reiman (00:43:00):

So you aren't that good at convincing then, that's what you're saying. I told you. So you guys talk about what it is your customers want, what are the kind of tools that you're using to get there? And maybe even what is one tool that you just absolutely couldn't do without when you're trying to breed your cattle and create the kind of cattle your customers want?

David Uhrig (00:43:24):

This isn't what you were asking, but I guess the one tool I couldn't live without would be strictly a scale, straight up a scale, because we're weighing them at birth and we're weighing them in the fall. For us it's adjusted 205 and without that it's pretty tough to get the kind of performance that we're wanting. We've got a hard line, I say a hard line. We have a hard line that we want those cattle to exceed. That's probably the one tool I couldn't live without. And I know that's not what you were asking, Miranda. I know that. No,

Miranda Reiman (00:43:58):

That's a fair answer. Yeah, no, let's see if TJ's got a better one, but

TJ Gabriel (00:44:05):

I really don't

David Uhrig (00:44:05):

I could try to convince you.

TJ Gabriel (00:44:09):

I think for me it's the Pathfinder hashtag, and not every great cow is a Pathfinder. I understand that. But as we research bulls and research AI leads and whatever, I love to go through and if it's aPathfinder cow, does she have 9, 10, 11 calves? Then go back to the next one. Does she have nine 11? And for us, I guess I'm not so much focused on, I think great cows will raise great calves, so the performance will follow the cows, but I want as many Pathfinders in a pedigree as I absolutely can stack. We flushed a cow the other day to a bull that has 13 in his three generation pedigree. You can only have 14 and he has 13 in his pedigree. Now, I had to go back to 1992 to get that, but the Pathfinder hashtag is huge. And like I said, they don't all have to be Pathfinders, but I want as many calves as I possibly can out of each cow.

Miranda Reiman (00:45:12):

So you're using that actually as a breeding tool, not just a marketing tool.

TJ Gabriel (00:45:16):

Oh, absolutely. If you go through our book, we'll have, I try to put the dam, the grandam, the great grandam, the great great grandam, all the production. And I have more guys that look for three, four generation, Pathfinder stacked. They just eat that up. But our guys, most of our guys, probably 90% of our guys are retaining heifers and we're marketing their heifers. So they're very focused on that. And so that is something we really focus on. I guess in turn,

Mark McCully (00:45:49):

TJ, and you've been branding around the maternal driven brand and that idea, define maternal. So for you, what describes maternal or in your case, the maternal driven criteria that you've been using?

TJ Gabriel (00:46:06):

Well, that's a tough, I thought we were going to get softball questions here.

Mark McCully (00:46:10):

Well, we're like 40 minutes in. That's still easy

TJ Gabriel (00:46:13):

Easy.

Mark McCully (00:46:15):

There's no right answer, right?

David Uhrig (00:46:16):

That's the warmup stage, right?

TJ Gabriel (00:46:19):

Maternal is defined for everybody a little different. I think that's what makes every program unique is that you have your own way to define maternal. But for us is, I hate to use this word, vertical integration, but that really is how it is. You have this base and then you stack these really great traits on top of each other and they vertically integrate to produce this elite female or this cow that we all strive for. It's hard to really, I mean, you can use EPDs if you want. I wouldn't say that maybe they play a part or performance plays a part or a Pathfinder plays a part. But the other day we were on a Zoom for a media deal we're going to be working on later. And what really maternal gets me going, it's this stupid little thing. But if I watch a cow calve and she literally, that calf gets up and she hits that calf to push it toward her udder, that just gets me, I'm like, man, that's maternal. I mean, it's all these little traits that you can't measure that add up to this great cow. And it's hard for me to put it into an index or an EPD or, I mean, I want cows that can do it on their own that get these calves up, get 'em going, come in problem free, raise a great calf. I mean, you could go on and on, but it's hard to define it in a sentence. I guess there's just a lot of traits that add up to producing a really maternal driven cow.

Mark McCully (00:48:05):

Well, and I think maybe that's why we have so much debate around this term. I think sometimes, and we have an index called maternal weaned calf value. And I think sometimes folks go, well, that's not my definition of maternal. It's like, well, I don't think that was ever the intention to say that is the definition of maternal. I think to what you're saying, maternal has a lot of this mothering ability or maternal instinct, and I want to quantify everything. I want to measure everything. So maybe we can start measuring from the time that calf hits the ground to it's gotten its full dose of colostrum. Maybe that's a measure. You guys are

Miranda Reiman (00:48:43):

Going to be out there with stopwatch.

Mark McCully (00:48:45):

Can you guys start out timing that for us and turning that in? Would that be a problem?

David Uhrig (00:48:52):

Stop. We'll get right on that. Let's see what we come up with

Mark McCully (00:48:56):

I mean, I do tend to think there are some things that can be evaluated and measured. And then there's a lot of things that I think as you guys are pointing out that I always say it's the blend of art and science and some of this of what makes a good cow, what makes the perfect cow. It's still that blend in the eye of the beholder in some days, in some cases.

TJ Gabriel (00:49:19):

Absolutely.

Miranda Reiman (00:49:22):

Speaking of that, art and science, I would say one thing, looking through your guys' sale books and seeing that Targeting the Brand logo and looking at some of your ability to combine both maternal and terminal, I guess, what are your feelings on how you balance that or how, I mean, you've said all your customers are selling on pounds, but yet it appears that you still are concerned with what happens to 'em after they run through the sale barn?

David Uhrig (00:49:50):

Sorry, TJ, if I cut you off, I guess I'm going to jump on that one because, so kind of going back to Mark's question about maternal, what are two of the two traits that Angus cattle are known for? One is marbling and the other one is maternal, however we define that, right? Part of my life was spent working with University of Nebraska Meat Lab for several years. If I had another calling, it would be working within the meat science area. So the year that the national tour was in Columbus, hint hint, the CAB tour was, I loved every bit of that. I could have stayed right there in them cool rooms and talked about meat science all day long. I didn't understand half of what most of 'em were. They can talk above me. I mean, let's face it, I chase cows and fix fence.

(00:50:43):

So I mean, my intellect may stop there at some point, but I feel like we want those cattle to do as much as they possibly can. And CAB is a world renowned program at this point, and the premiums are too big to overlook. I mean, we're in the 21st century and we all love everything we do with agriculture. We all want to raise our family here, but at the end of the day, man, we've got bills to pay. And those premiums, whether they're Prime premiums or they're Choice premiums, CAB, there's too much there to overlook to bring that home to us to help pay bills. So I feel like, yeah, I feel like I want those cattle to be hitting that target brand doesn't necessarily mean those are the sis that we're using all the time. TJ and I are notorious for this, and we know this. We go back and forth. You could give us the perfect bull that would fill every hole we would ever want, and we'd still tear him apart.

(00:51:50):

And if he didn't, I would by myself, but I know we're going to find a hole somewhere, but they've got to excel in western South Dakota. They've got to be able to go to a feed yard and grow, and they've got to grade on the rail. I mean, that just has to happen. That's the way the industry functions. That's the way it flows. That's the way it works. I mean, if we're not doing that, I feel like we're doing, in my opinion, I'm doing a disservice if we're not getting that accomplished to our customers. And I use the analogy, I mean, there's a lot more that happens past the end of that loading chute. And so me personally, I got to be cognizant of what all that entails. And so like I said, I watch that finished side of that product probably more than most. Doesn't mean that that's how I'm gearing the operation. I still expect these cows to thrive in our environment. Sometimes I'm hard on them. So that was a long drawn out answer. I know. Did I persuade you one way or the other?

Miranda Reiman (00:52:54):

No, that was great.

TJ Gabriel (00:52:57):

We've never really focused on the terminal, I guess, too much. But like I said, Bonnie Sivage was a mentor of mine, and she bred every female to have a heifer calf. And I followed that motto and I said, well, we're in the bull business. And she said, if you've got great cows, the bulls will follow. And I live by that. If you have a great maternal base, the terminal cattle, they'll be there. You'll have great steers every year. It won't matter as long as you have this tremendous maternal foundation, you can go any way you want to with your herd. So we focused more on that, and I think the terminal cattle will follow, if they want to make great steers. They can do that with a great cow.

Mark McCully (00:53:45):

Do you think the Angus breed can fill the industry's need for both maternal and terminal traits?

TJ Gabriel (00:53:51):

Absolutely. No doubt.

David Uhrig (00:53:54):

Yes. I don't think it's fair to assume that they'll come from the same bull or the same bloodline or even the same operation. But yes, my brother and I talk as much as TJ and I, and one thing he's always great for, he pointed out within the Angus breed, you can get whatever you want. If you want terminal cattle, man, they're there and they aren't very hard to find. If you want maternal cattle, TJ's your guy, or there's plenty of operations around. And then there's guys that try to do a little bit of both. I like to think, I'd like to try to do a little bit of both, but it's there. You want to crack some feet, you can crack some feet, you want to crack udders, it's there. And it's not going to be the same operation every time. It's not going to be the same pedigree. It's not going to be the same lineage. So yeah, to your point, yes, you can find all that, or your question, excuse me. I think you can find all that. It just, you've got to decide how you want, breed what you want to fix or correct, or whatever the case may be.

TJ Gabriel (00:54:59):

I think the industry answered your question, mark. I mean, obviously, I mean, I'm not taking away from any of the other breeds, but as we've progressed, Angus has taken the forefront. And that's because it does both things very well. It makes a great stake and it makes a great cow. And yeah, it might not be the same bull like David says, but it's happening. I mean, we're living it and it's great.

Mark McCully (00:55:27):

And yeah, I go back to if the answer was no, we would have 50% market share at best, but it's more like 80 and growing. And I think that's why I asked the questions around heterosis and those types of things that are, as we look at making the commercial cow calf herd more and more and more Angus, how do we make sure we are best positioning them to be successful and to make money and to make sure that they stay in business with Angus genetics?

Miranda Reiman (00:55:59):

And you probably already answered another question I had, which was, what's the breed doing right? But maybe you want to skip right to what areas do we have? What would you put in the needs improvement category?

David Uhrig (00:56:12):

For me, that's a sticking point, is kind of how we started this conversation. And I think that'll come with functional longevity to a degree. But the fertility thing, we've got to get our thumb on that. We seem to be able to correct a lot of the other problems fairly fast, whatever those problems may be. Congestive heart failure is a big one. We'll see if we can kind of correct that as an industry. But the fertility thing, I read a news article, I can't even tell you where it was, but the physical land in this country is going to change hands in the next 20 years from one generation to the next. And when you look at that, I don't know what that's going to look like. I don't know if any of us do, but production, we're still going to have to produce off that smaller, smaller acreages every year. So production's going to have to be huge. And I still think in my heart, this is old math, but those cows need to be sticking around longer than five years.

(00:57:25):

And that's terrible. As a bull guy, we're supposed to want them to turn them over five years. I mean, let's sell you a new bull, sell you new genetics. But those cows need to be sticking around longer than that. And we're struggling. We're struggling as an industry to get much over five years. We've got some old ones. I know TJ's got some old ones, and we've got an old cow that we kind of base a lot of our embryo work around that we're no longer doing. She lived to be 16 years old, and we're just not getting that. And I don't know how you fix that. I don't know how you correct that. That's not going to happen overnight, but I feel like that's the one thing that we've got to get ahold of. And maybe it's management, I don't know, but I hear it all the time. And last year, TJ and I, like I said, we talk all the time, and he saw some extremely high open rates. And by no fault of the operators, I mean, it just was what it was. But man, when you start hearing them double digit opens, it starts to wear people out.

TJ Gabriel (00:58:32):

I agree. I mean, I think fertility, obviously, longevity, how we track that. I mean, that's two very important things. We got to get these cows to breed first cycle, and we got to get 'em to last a long time. And of course, we are always worried about feet. We talked that deal to death. Me and David talked that to death, like every other breeder. We all know that we need to find ways to solve that problem too. The other thing is, I'm not going to want to bash on the Association very much, Mark, but I'm not going to throw you a softball here.

Mark McCully (00:59:14):

We can edit it if you get too critical.

TJ Gabriel (00:59:18):

And we hear this at convention. I mean, you guys are great about these breakouts in convention and whatever. So in the last 20 years, we've basically gained no weaning weight or yearling weight. It's been pretty much status quo. But our EPDs, as we all know, have made this climb up up. So as a breeder, and I'm looking on from my customers, we need to figure out how to close that gap, how we make these EPDs correlate to the type of cattle we're raising. And I'm not going after the Association. You guys do a great job down there. I ride for the brand every day as David does. We live and breathe this every day, and we've got Powered by Angus all over in our catalogs and our websites and everything that we do. We love Angus cattle. But that's one irk of mine or little pet peeve is that somehow we've got to get these back correlated and our guys are noticing it. I mean, when you're getting these 160, seventy, eighty yearling and our cattle aren't growing anymore. Like I said, not throwing anybody under the bus.

Mark McCully (01:00:33):

Oh no,

TJ Gabriel (01:00:34):

But I wish we could get that correlated a little closer.

Mark McCully (01:00:41):

Maybe that's the next podcast we have, Miranda, because I do want to dig into that a little bit. I do hear that. And I'll be honest, when I go back and pull, I mean pull the most recent sire summary and we've got those phenotypic trends. If you go back 20 years and look at the phenotypic trends and compare it to EPD trend line, those actually, when you put 'em on the same scale, they actually do line up fairly well. I mean, I hear from time to time that weaning weight of our commercial producers aren't maybe keeping pace or they're a little bit flatter. And I've seen some of that data because I look at finished weights, right? We're taking steers now to 15, 1550 pounds. Now, are they fat? Yes. Are we feeding them longer? Yes. But we are putting more growth potential in 'em. So I hear you.

(01:01:34):

I also want to push back just a little on that. I really want to dig into that data, and I could be wrong, but I saw something the other day on social media and I actually went back and pulled the data myself and laid it on top of each other. So I want to do it again. I'd love to visit with you about that and see, in my mind, they're lining up better than I think that some folks are, or maybe not. Maybe we're not seeing it in some operations. Our AHIR data, if you look at over a 20 year trend, they actually do line up pretty good. But let me keep digging in that. And like I said, maybe we can have another podcast and just dive into that topic. Absolutely. We've got to have tools in your hands that you guys are confident in and you're confident in because they work. Right. And if they don't, and so that's goal number one. Goal number one.

TJ Gabriel (01:02:29):

 That'd be a great podcast. I'd be all over that one.

Mark McCully (01:02:32):

Okay. We may need to do that one as a webinar. I may need graphs and charts to show this, right?

Miranda Reiman (01:02:39):

I was just thinking an article in the Angus Journal, since we know that David reads, we can go ahead

David Uhrig (01:02:44):

Careful. Don't tell anybody. It's only on a limited basis.

TJ Gabriel (01:02:48):

We better have lots of pictures.

Mark McCully (01:02:50):

Lots of pictures.

Miranda Reiman (01:02:53):

Well, we have kept you guys longer than we promised, I think here.

Mark McCully (01:02:58):

I have a whole list of questions. We're not even

Miranda Reiman (01:03:00):

I know Mark. Yeah, that's really,

David Uhrig (01:03:03):

We didn't even get 'em all asked.

Miranda Reiman (01:03:06):

Yeah, that's right.

Mark McCully (01:03:08):

Well, will you come back and join us again?

David Uhrig (01:03:10):

Absolutely. You bet. Absolutely. I've loved it.

TJ Gabriel (01:03:12):

 Yep. It was great.

Mark McCully (01:03:13):

I do truly appreciate, and I've always enjoyed my conversations with you guys. You mentioned it, TJ, you're riding for the brand. You guys are in this breed and support, but you're also willing to ask questions and push back and ask, what about and can we do this better? And man, that is how we get better. And that is, I value that so much. I know. We always greatly appreciate that. And so coming on here and having some of this conversation, man, it's gold and I appreciate you guys doing it. Most definitely.

Miranda Reiman (01:03:48):

You better not be wrapping up without the random question of the week.

Mark McCully (01:03:51):

Oh yeah. I can't get past Miranda's random question. I never know what these are either. So

David Uhrig (01:03:55):

Before you get there, Miranda, Mark, you kind of hit on that. And I guess I want to expound on that just a little bit. I would encourage anybody that's listening, the people in St. Joe from Miranda to Mark to Kelli, I don't care who they are, they are absolutely more than willing to talk to you and answer your questions. Just sometimes I feel like those of us out here in the field, and I say that as generalization as I can, but those of us that aren't in St. Joe, we get locked in our own little bubble. And sometimes we're not always willing to pick that phone up and have those conversations. But there is, that has to be done, I mean. And there's been some misconceptions about things. Mark, you and I have talked about things through the years that have been thrown out there, and you guys do a fantastic job. Nobody has ever told me, no, I'm not answering your questions ever. I mean, that just never has happened. And I commend the entire staff and everybody for saying, yeah, you just got to ask it. You got to talk to us. And so I think that's a huge part of this and for us to understand what's going on down there.

Mark McCully (01:05:07):

Well, and give us feedback when things aren't. I mean, you guys are living it every day too, right? So I don't want to make it sound, well just ask us. We'll tell you the answer. Tell us where we can get better. So sorry, TJ, I interrupted.

TJ Gabriel (01:05:22):

I totally agree with David. I think the greatest asset as breeders is the office in St. Joe. And I'm looking at one of them right here. Mark McCully has done a great job, and I'm going to pat you on the back a little bit, Mark, but

Mark McCully (01:05:37):

We will edit this out so

TJ Gabriel (01:05:39):

You'll edit it out. But honestly, I've lived through a few CEOs and one of the most accessible, honest guys you'll meet and a great asset to Angus. I truly mean that Mark

Mark McCully (01:05:52):

That's kind and I appreciate you saying it. Yeah, let's get to that random question. Yeah,

Miranda Reiman (01:05:58):

I was going to add to that, that's also one of our favorite parts is when we do get feedback from breeders and we get to talk to breeders because we work for you and we want to hear from you. So I guess I'll just add an exclamation point to that. But the random question of the week, I want to know somewhere that you've never been that you would like to visit.

TJ Gabriel (01:06:17):

Go ahead, David.

David Uhrig (01:06:19):

I've got lots of places like that, but I got to read to get there.

Miranda Reiman (01:06:25):

You could even go see cows when you get there. I'm not combining it to Bahama Beach vacation or something.

David Uhrig (01:06:31):

There's two. I've got a long German heritage in me. I mean, there's fair amount of Russian heritage, so I'm going to throw two at him. Rand, I don't know if that's against the rules that's

Miranda Reiman (01:06:40):

Allowed. It's very random.

David Uhrig (01:06:43):

I would like to go back to where my family started in Germany/Russia and kind of go back and do some ancestral stuff there as well as see some of the Holocaust stuff and being I do have a solid German heritage. Go to October Fest. I mean you don't ever want to.

Mark McCully (01:07:04):

There you go.

David Uhrig (01:07:05):

The other place would be Australia. It's something entirely different. Never been there. Probably good chance I won't make it, but those are my two places.

Mark McCully (01:07:17):

Well, the World Angus Forum is going to be in Australia in May, 2025.

David Uhrig (01:07:21):

I know. I know.

Miranda Reiman (01:07:22):

Start saving your pennies.

Mark McCully (01:07:24):

Well, you can write it off on your taxes.

David Uhrig (01:07:26):

I'm doing what I can, but it's a struggle. It's a struggle.

Mark McCully (01:07:30):

I understand.

Miranda Reiman (01:07:32):

How about you, TJ?

TJ Gabriel (01:07:33):

Very similar to David, my great great grandfather. His last name was Morkved, so when they immigrated into the United States, they changed it to Markwid. But actually there is a town in Norway that we came from called Morkbed. So I would like to, yeah, that'd be a cool place to go and just connect with some family and stuff like that just to see why they went from there to Western South Dakota.

Mark McCully (01:08:07):

How bad was it?

TJ Gabriel (01:08:08):

How bad was it in Norway?

Mark McCully (01:08:13):

Miranda.

Miranda Reiman (01:08:15):

Oh, where would I go? Oh gosh.

Mark McCully (01:08:16):

Yeah, so usually I always forget to kind of turn the question back on you a little bit.

Miranda Reiman (01:08:22):

I'm a big history buff. I like reading a lot of historical fiction, so I would probably go to some of the World War II sites. Germany would be in there, France, just anywhere. I think when you get to Europe, you can go to all of these countries all just in a short period of time, right? Yeah. So I think I would just go over to Europe and spend some time. Actually, my husband owes me a trip because we got married when we were in college and I was going to do a 10 day study abroad, but it was going to add on to my student loans, and we decided that $4,000 to go to Europe was way too much money. And so I bring this up about every couple of years that he still owes me a trip that was going to, looking back now, we should have taken the trip when I was a senior in college.

David Uhrig (01:09:09):

 That 4,000 is now eight.

TJ Gabriel (01:09:11):

Yeah, because you'd got to forgive. Yeah, yeah, that's

Miranda Reiman (01:09:14):

Right. I wouldn't even have too bad. I feel bad I paid all my student loans off very early in my career. How about you, Mark?

Mark McCully (01:09:24):

Very similar to you guys. I've got Irish and Scottish roots and have never been to Ireland or Scotland. So that's on my to-do list and someday, hopefully. And then also Australia. I've just always been, just some pretty neat people and some pretty good cows down there. And so just always anxious to, and looking forward, I think in May of 25, I'll get the chance to go to the World Angus Forum and pretty excited about that. Yeah.

Miranda Reiman (01:09:56):

Very cool. Well, this should give you guys a lot to dream about. If you get a couple of blizzards in between now and then and wish you were somewhere else besides South Dakota, you can start planning your trip.

Mark McCully (01:10:06):

I hope you're out of blizzards by now, but I'm sure it's only March, so

Miranda Reiman (01:10:10):

Yeah, I don't think so, Mark,

David Uhrig (01:10:12):

Probably in order for us to have a good summer, we about need a blizzard and we about need a tough one and we haven't had it

Mark McCully (01:10:21):

Well, I hope you get a good one. Yeah.

Miranda Reiman (01:10:25):

Well, thank you guys again for taking the time to visit with us tonight. This has been a blast and look forward to catching up with you guys down the road sometime.

David Uhrig (01:10:33):

Yes, thank you.

Mark McCully (01:10:34):

Appreciate you guys.

TJ Gabriel (01:10:35):

Thank you very much. It was great.

Miranda Reiman (01:10:38):

And that's a wrap on another fun episode. We are cruising through season four and really enjoying learning from all the breeders that we've interviewed. If you would like an in-depth look on any of these topics that we cover regularly from genetics to management to marketing, and you're not an Angus Journal subscriber, I'd invite you to become one today. Visit angus journal.net for more information. This has been The Angus Conversation, an Angus Journal podcast.