Those Who Gave Them a Chance — McCaleb, Williams on Starting Out in the Angus Business

What starts as a dream takes both capital and creativity, paired with a strong dose of hard work, to make it a reality. Sometimes the extra “umph” is someone else who helps along the way. For both Calli Williams, Mitchell, S.D., and Jake McCaleb, Gordonsville, Tenn., they had a passion for the Angus business that industry veterans helped them cultivate. Hear how these producers in opposite parts of the country started small, what they’ve done to grow their business, how they learned the ropes and what they found they could do without until the timing was right.

Whether you’re a longtime breeder or just beginning, this episode is full of inspiration on how to offer help to the next generation or how to get started on your journey.

HOSTS: Miranda Reiman and Mark McCully 

GUESTS: Calli Williams and Jake McCaleb

Calli Williams and her husband, Tate, are first-generation Angus breeders from Mitchell, S.D. They operate TW Angus, where they sell bulls and run a direct-to-consumer beef business. Calli also works remotely for an ag-based company, balancing her off-farm career with ranch life. Calli and Tate are raising their two young boys, who enjoy helping on the ranch.  

Jake McCaleb, Gordonsville, Tenn., bought his first Angus cow in 2012 and started McCaleb Bros. Angus, which he hopes to pass on to his sons one day. He currently serves as vice president of the Upper Cumberland Angus Association and is a fleet manager for his family’s trucking business.  

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Transcript

Miranda Reiman (00:00:02):
Welcome to the Angus Conversation. I am your host Miranda Reiman with my co-host Mark McCully, CEO of the American Angus Association. Mark, we are headed into the Thanksgiving holiday, which always makes me think of all the things that I'm grateful for and as I'll be returning back to work here December 1 from my maternity leave, it has me thinking of, I'm of course very thankful for my family and all of that, but I'm also so thankful for a job that lets me work for Angus breeders across the United States. And today we got off the phone with two Angus breeders that I think really just recharge that fuel that these are the people I get to work for and it makes me excited to come back to work. So I guess one, this is reassuring. I'm coming back to work, Mark.

Mark McCully (00:00:48):
Good, I'm glad. And now we have it on record.

Miranda Reiman (00:00:50):
Yeah, that's right. And two, I think it's just going to be a really neat conversation for people to, of really, of any generation to listen to.

Mark McCully (00:01:00):
Yeah, I think we have two young breeders that are clearly excited and passionate about the business and the Angus breed, and I think one of the things that in our membership survey, and I mentioned it when we were talking with Jake and Calli, but about the number, the percentages of new folks to the Association that are new into the registered Angus business and new as members. And so hearing their story about how they got plugged in and building that network and things, tools, and the resources that they had access to, I think is, I hope we'll hit a note with a lot of our listeners. I think you point that out too, Miranda. It's also to those that have been in this business for maybe a couple generations hearing the excitement of some young folks that got started and maybe how they got started, that leg up that they got from some established breeders, some advice and counsel and mentoring that they got along the way. I think that's both encouraging and maybe an example of things that we can do ourselves

Miranda Reiman (00:02:07):
Regardless of where you sit in the Angus business today or what generation you are, I think you can learn something from this podcast and maybe apply it right away.

Mark McCully (00:02:16):
I think so too.

Miranda Reiman (00:02:21):
Today on the podcast, we have lined up two guests that I would say share some things in common and enthusiasm for the Angus business, just getting their start, kind of where they're at in their journey, however different parts of the country. So I guess first I'll jump up to Calli Williams, she and her husband Tate, and two little boys operate TW Angus near Mitchell, South Dakota. So Calli, thanks for joining us

Calli Williams (00:02:44):
And thank you. Good morning. I'm excited to be here

Miranda Reiman (00:02:47):
And I'll get into your background just a little bit, but across the screen we also have Jake McCaleb, he and his wife and also two boys operate McCaleb Brothers Angus at Gordonsville, Tennessee. So thanks for joining us today, Jake.

Jake McCaleb (00:02:59):
Oh yeah, I'm excited. I'm pumped. Thank you.

Miranda Reiman (00:03:02):
So I guess Calli, we'll just start with you, ladies first I guess. But you guys sell bowls, operate a freezer beef business. But give us just a little bit of the rundown. I know that you're a first generation Angus breeder and give us kind of the start of the TW Angus story.

Calli Williams (00:03:18):
Yeah. No matter how many times I try to share this and keep it short and sweet, it never stays that way. There's a lot that went into this. My husband Tate is who really gives us that title of first generation ranchers as he grew up on the lake here in Mitchell, South Dakota, no agricultural background. His parents could win yard of the month type of a backyard. And so when he was hanging out with some family friends that are very involved in the Angus breed already, the Bussmus Angus family here in Mitchell, he just took a loving for the seedstock side of things. And so he was out there helping get ready for Denver stock show and little jackpots here and there, and they, very welcoming, let him start buying heifers to keep at their place because like I said, you can't have cattle in your backyard when you live on the lake.

(00:04:08):
And so that is what makes us the first generation rancher as he started buying cattle in high school. Well, flash forward, we met at the South Dakota State Fair, such a Midwest pickup line of, "Will you show my heifer?" and I was just coming off my internship with Certified Angus Beef in Ohio, so I didn't have cattle at the fair, so it was a very easy yes, I was excited to be able to help him and get to know him better. But cattle has been a part of our story from day 1, so we have just kind of dove all in. Bought this acreage, expanded the cow herd, moved on from private treaty selling bulls to having an online bull sale the first weekend of March, and then also our direct to consumer beef business.

Miranda Reiman (00:04:53):
I think that I read somewhere that you got engaged and then promptly signed your FSA loan the same week or something.

Calli Williams (00:05:00):
Yeah, we did. Yes. So we got engaged when we were skiing out in Colorado and the first place we stopped on our way back was at the FSA office to sign the paperwork to buy this acreage. So I'm always like, well, did he need just a co-signer or is this the real future here? But it just really shares a lot about us. We are focused on that future and we know this kind of stuff or these kind of opportunities don't come across very often. And so I'm very thankful that we're in this for the long run.

Mark McCully (00:05:31):
And Calli many would know your father, Dr. Robbi Pritchard. So one of my favorite people and guy I always have always looked up to. So you also grew up around the cattle business as well too?

Calli Williams (00:05:45):
I did, yes. So always knew cattle were going to be a part of my future. I just really hoped they would physically be a part of it.

(00:05:52):
I didn't know if that meant being out in DC lobbying type of job or marketing for someone, somewhere. In my high school senior paper, I did say I wanted to be the president of CAB, but things have changed.

Miranda Reiman (00:06:05):
We'll tell Stika his job...

Calli Williams (00:06:06):
I know, I'm like knocking on Stika's door. No, South Dakota is definitely home and very, very fortunate of who my dad is and being able to learn from him for so long, he bought their first cows the winter I was born. He said the quality of cattle that my mom wanted me to show, Dad was not going to be able to afford. So he said, I have eight years to get this breeding right. So very fortunate to have him, his support, but also he helps us develop rations for the different things we have going on here for the bulls, for the replacement heifers, the steers, and that is so valuable, don't take it for granted. And then Mom, very involved in the beef industry too, so very, ... there.

Miranda Reiman (00:06:52):
Awesome. Excellent. And Jake, now heading down to Tennessee there, like I said, you guys paralleled some in your story, two young boys on the ranch. Give us your kind background and story in the business.

Jake McCaleb (00:07:04):
Yeah, I started, I guess my dad. He had commercial cattle when I was a little boy, and which he was a truck driver too, and that don't really match. So he had to end up selling the cattle, which I always loved it and always wanted to have cattle as I got older. But I guess right out of high school I sort of had a passion, got the chance to buy 10 registered heifers and sort of took a loan at the bank and sort of jumped in there. I had a man here in town, Mr. Harold Dillard, very well respected. And I just went and would sit with him, pick his brain and he would teach me and explain everything. And my love for Angus sort of just took off from there. He actually, unfortunately he passed away with COVID in 2020 and I missed that man dearly, miss him dearly.

(00:08:00):
So yeah, that started McCaleb Brothers Angus in 2012, I believe it was. Sort of in my mind I was thinking this may be something that me and my brothers are going to do. My one brother, he'd much rather had golf and sort of sports. And my other brother, he does help me, but it's sort of like the journey way before I was married and had kids, God sort of I think placed this to say, this is going to be for your sons. And that's why was named McCaleb brothers. I didn't know that I would have two boys at the time. So since then, man, it's really taken off. I've learned a lot of things the hard way. I've got a good network, got a good network of people that have sort of gathered around me. My full-time job is a fleet manager for my dad's trucking company. We've been in business now for 37 years, hauling reefers all over the country, going to Walmarts, Publix, distribution of food is the main thing. And then the Angus cattle is where I go to try to get my stress relief.

Miranda Reiman (00:09:13):
When I was trying to line this podcast up, I think you said your office hours, but you were trying to leave to check cows, daylight savings kind of cuts into that, doesn't it?

Jake McCaleb (00:09:23):
And I have drivers and it's fine. They all get it and they understand. They'll call me, they might have a blowout on the road and I'm actually in the tractor or something and they're like, Hey, I'm right here at a Love's and I'm trying to do the best I can with fumbling that, and I've gotten better at it as time goes on, but it's sort of life. It's wide open all the time. But the Angus breed and the cattle and the people, I just love it. I truly just every day I'm excited to see what this day's going to hold. Now, that's not to say I haven't had really, really tough days. Really, really bad days. My little boy, I told y'all earlier, little bit Jude, he has MPS 1. He doesn't let it slow him down. We have went on a journey trying to figure out what was going on with him.

(00:10:16):
He's now 9 years old. We just got back from Minnesota, University of Minnesota, to get him checked out, just to have sort of that sense of, make sure as a parent we're doing everything right. He loves cattle, he loves checking calves, he loves feeding, he loves all the things. My wife, of course, she supports me. She was actually patching fence the other day and she's sort of a girly girl. She really don't know much about cattle, but she fell in there the other day and I'm like, what are you doing? She said, I'm patching this fence. I'm like, oh, great. Wear it out.

Calli Williams (00:10:50):
That a girl.

Miranda Reiman (00:10:51):
Calli,

Calli Williams (00:10:52):
Fun part.

Miranda Reiman (00:10:52):
I feel like you and her might be good friends. I don't know if this is a good time to mention that Calli was actually a pageant, pageant girl growing up in South Dakota. So she would be the

Calli Williams (00:11:02):
Short and sweet moment there.

Miranda Reiman (00:11:04):
Yeah, girly girl also. So you can be both right, Callie?

Mark McCully (00:11:07):
Who can fix fence.

Miranda Reiman (00:11:09):
Who can also fix fence. That's exactly right.

Calli Williams (00:11:11):
Exactly.

Jake McCaleb (00:11:12):
My wife's a wedding coordinator, and patches barbed wire fence. So that goes together. And I got to say my 4 year old, Jesse, he is a pistol. If he was here, this office would be burning to the ground at the moment. Good boy. He loves cattle, has no fear. So yeah, that's sort of where we're at right now.

Miranda Reiman (00:11:34):
I love that.

Mark McCully (00:11:34):
I got to meet your boys at the, I think I was down at the Upper Cumberland State Association or Regional Association meeting there. And yeah, there's not going to be, from what I sense, there's not going to be a lack of energy in your house for several years to come.

Jake McCaleb (00:11:48):
I gave them a speech and I threatened both their lives. I was like, behave yourself while Mr. Mark McCully is speaking. And I think they did fairly well if I remember.

Mark McCully (00:11:58):
Oh, they did awesome. They did awesome.

Miranda Reiman (00:12:01):
So I guess when I hear of the stages of life you guys are in and knowing that myself, you're juggling a lot of things. Calli, I believe you've also got an off the farm job too, is that right?

Calli Williams (00:12:12):
Yes. So fortunately I'm able to work remotely, so I am home. However, my employer is based in Casper, Wyoming, and very, very thankful for it though because they are so supportive. If there's something going on with the cows and I need to be outside the quick email of I need to go help with bulls, or I got a cow calving, something like that. And salary to me cannot be replaced by the flexibility of when you have an employer who allows you to do that. Because our cow herd has just seen so much growth and improvement from having someone here full-time. Those jobs off the farm are something we cannot give up

(00:12:49):
to keep doing this as first gen. I mean even not first generation ranchers, but there's so much with the input costs, that our off the farm jobs are important. And so I'm just very, very thankful to have found a team that lets me continue doing this and still be in ag but also have this opportunity to continue networking with livestock producers across the Midwest for work.

Miranda Reiman (00:13:12):
Absolutely. So what in all of the juggling that you guys are doing makes you still want to do the cattle part or what made you say it's worth all of that?

Jake McCaleb (00:13:23):
Just I think it really is the love of seeing how my boys get so excited over a new calf being born. I think it's because there is hard days. I think everybody that's listening to this, we can remember some of the hardest days, but as humans, we need to try to, I'm the worst at this. I've got to try to remember to look at the good days. I'm a very goal-driven person, but I think you need to take time and say, you know what? I need to enjoy the journey now because I've got a lot of goals and I think my own worst critic that I'm striving to get there, but sometimes I need to take a moment to breathe and just enjoy the scenery, enjoy the view. And of course, whenever you pair this mama cow with this bull and thinking, I come up with that mating in my mind and it really worked. And when you see that it really worked, oh, that's what it's all about to me. And I love that. I really love that.

Calli Williams (00:14:32):
That's a big part of it. There's also something to say about the wide open spaces, and for me it's the South Dakota sunsets, that is therapy right there. I think a lot of people can also agree working cattle is marriage counseling sometimes.

Jake McCaleb (00:14:47):
Oh sure. Gosh, Lord,

Calli Williams (00:14:50):
I'll never forget, we were not married yet. We were engaged. And Tate's uncle who again, no background to livestock whatsoever was here. And it was our first time trying to get cows in this portable corral we borrowed from a neighbor and we were going to set cows up to AI. It was muddy, it was awful. There were lots of words. And I ended up, I remember walking towards the house because I'm like, well, something might get said here. So I just walked away. And that evening at supper, his uncle's like, you mean there's still a wedding? A wedding's happening? We're like, well, yeah, sometimes you learn a lot about each other when you're around livestock, you learn to adapt. And that is something that we saw right away when we bought this place of, we had all these big ideas of, oh, the corral could go here, the working facilities here. But we knew nothing about the land itself.

(00:15:45):
So the place that we were going to put that corral is now the swampiest place we have.

(00:15:50):
That's not going to work. We still have a lot of portable things around here, but then what you said, Jake, of having your boys love it. Our boys are 7 and 4. They have very different things they enjoy about the ranch. The youngest is my herd boss. Actually. If I say we're going to water cows or do this and that, he does not let me forget.

Jake McCaleb (00:16:15):
Right? Yeah.

Calli Williams (00:16:15):
This one is going to stop in and visit. He knows I'm talking about the herd boss, but it is just to me so much that they get to learn. And so he's letting me know that the grain truck just pulled in.

Jake McCaleb (00:16:27):
That's right.

Miranda Reiman (00:16:28):
Right on cue, man.

Calli Williams (00:16:29):
Yeah, right on cue.

Jake McCaleb (00:16:32):
As you were saying Callie. So one of the first times Lauren ever helped me, I was trying to get a bunch of calves in the barn and separate 'em, and I had a cow that got by me and I was hollering to Lauren, shut the gate. Well, she was determined. The gate didn't swing very well, but she was determined and she was trying. And the cow busted through and it knocked Lauren back. And I remember she fell in the mud and I thought, oh God, this is going to be the end of this. Is it?

Calli Williams (00:16:59):
I'm done, never help me again.

Jake McCaleb (00:17:01):
And she got up and was worried that I was mad. And she's like, I didn't mean to. I'm so sorry. I said, no, are you okay? It's fine. It's okay. We'll get her back. It's all right. So yeah, a lot of stories like that.

Calli Williams (00:17:15):
Yeah. Well, and I do think you juggle it all and it's worth it because of the people too.

Jake McCaleb (00:17:20):
Yes.

Calli Williams (00:17:20):
There is an old cowboy that we just lost this last year, that he is someone that I really looked up to and respected Hugh Ingalls, Ingalls Centennial Angus, and his mannerisms of both towards life, towards being a Christian, and towards his cattle, were all things that I respected and there was nothing more that I wanted to be like than Hugh. And I remember in those early years of trying to figure things out here on the ranch, I'd be like, what would Hugh say? What would Hugh do? And Tate and I use a lot of quotes from Hugh often because he was just so humble and calm. I mean the things he made it through. We have his book now and it's a memoir and it's some stories I never heard from the man, and I wish he would've told me. I bet there was even more to it. But there's just a lot to learn from the people within the industry and they're always willing to support us, and I think that makes it so worth it.

Jake McCaleb (00:18:19):
I agree. I wanted to say, I was thinking about what you just said. The majority of Angus breeders want to see you do well, very few that almost act like it's a competition. I mean, the majority of the people I have run into will give you if you're open to it, if you're willing to listen, they will give you what they have learned to try to help you. And that is outstanding. I mean, what you're saying about Mr. Hugh, I mean that guy, and I had mine, Mr. Harold Dillard and I got Barry Smith and a few other guys that I'm talking to that I'm picking their brain because I don't know everything, but I'm eager to learn it if I'm not hardheaded and want to do it my own way, as long as I'm open to suggestion and I think that you got to be or you make the wrong decision, it can cost you a lot of money. It can cost you a lot of money.

Miranda Reiman (00:19:17):
We're going to pause for just a moment to hear this word from Angus Media.

Speaker (00:19:23):
Take control of your sale book. A good book can make or break a sale. Pasture to Publish gives you access to Angus Media's exclusive mailing list, global search features, sale book requests, live EPDs and lot QR codes. Want to upgrade your experience? Create your sale book with Pasture to Publish today. Create your free account by visiting www.pasturetopublish.com or by clicking the link in our show notes.

Mark McCully (00:19:52):
So those mentors that you guys have been so blessed with, did you seek them out? Was it just a plan that you guys got put together? Did they see something in you and decide, Hey, I'm going to come here and put you under my wing and let me show you some ropes? How did that, because I think what you're pointing out, and you guys have so well articulated, the importance of mentors, especially if you're not a fourth generation coming at this thing where you don't have the built-in mentors of family that you can go out. I think your point, Jake, is so true. I see it all the time of folks so willing to offer up. You don't see this in other businesses. You don't go to a competing business and say, tell me all the things you're doing right and all the things you're doing wrong, and they'll sit down there and tell you everything. Right? We see this in the Angus community. So Miranda knows I'm a terrible question asker.

Miranda Reiman (00:20:46):
That's not true. I was going to say, so back to the question Mark,

Mark McCully (00:20:51):
On those mentors, you guys were just saying so many good things. I had so much to say about that. Did they find you or did you find them?

Jake McCaleb (00:21:00):
At first I had to go through, I was eager. So I started searching and I went through a few people and I'll give you, I asked a guy one time about what's this mean on EPDs? And he said, I don't know. And in my mind I was like, you should know that. So no disrespect to him. I wanted to go to somebody that knew that. And as I sort of searched, I would say it was up to me to get out and start the journey. And whenever I come across Mr. Harold and he seen that I was eager, he would give me all the time in the world and he explained things, and I'll say this, he started what we have here as the Upper Cumberland Angus. He was a founding father, and I made it a goal in my life one day I want to be as good as Mr. Harold and I want to sell there. And today I'm the current vice president there and I hold it very dear in my heart and I want to see it go for many generations because that is, a consignment sale is hard nowadays. And we got a really, really good group of breeders here. But it's sort of a goal-driven thing that I know Mr. Harold would be super proud of me just because of the time we spent together and me asking all kinds of crazy questions. And he would just laugh and take his time and say, well, this is what it is. So I think a younger person, I think Calli would agree with this, if they're eager and hungry, they need to seek out, there's tons of resources. Absolutely, there's so many. And find that person and maybe they're not the person. Maybe after a few phone calls or a few meetings, you're like, I don't know if this is the right person for me, but I promise you there's going to be two or three somewhere else that you're going to be like, oh man, that really clicks. I mean, this person is it. And then it just grows from there. And then guess what? The next generation, the younger person, they're going to start asking you questions. It's great. It's amazing.

Calli Williams (00:23:13):
It is for sure. I have a picture that I can see from where I'm sitting right now, and it's from the South Dakota State Fair. And I'm very fortunate that a lot of my mentors are people that my dad knew well, but that didn't mean they had to lend a hand when it came to helping me and then later helping my husband and I. But this photo is Hugh Ingalls, Steve Goodfellow and Jim Krantz and also Jim Hanks. So there's all of us in this photo and they are mentors that they would be at the Angus show at the fair, sitting in that front row. And it was so fun. I would turn as red as a cherry pie because when I would walk by Mr. Goodfellow, Steve Goodfellow would say all these compliments about this heifer loud enough for the judge to hear just having a ball.

(00:23:58):
He was having fun. And then when anybody else would walk by, they would have these comments like, oh, did you see this and that on that heifer and just giving their own reasons, but having so much fun, they thought they were so sly and hilarious and they were just living out their college livestock judging days with their buds at the annual fair reunion type of deal. But at the fair, when the show's all over and you're back at your stalls, my stall didn't have people my age at it. It was these guys and I didn't have a single chair left because they would all just hang out at the stall. And as a 14, 15-year-old, didn't really think a lot of it. Looking back now, I'm like, wow. I had a lot of, not only well respected Angus breeders just hanging out with us, but that were there for support.

(00:24:49):
And so we jumped forward a few years and we're getting a heifer as a wedding present or a heifer to start the kids' cow herds themselves. So that support just kind of evolved as I got older, I think they saw that fire and they saw that spark that I was going to stay in ag, and they continued to let that grow. But then for Tate's side of things as that true first gen, he had one friend that led him into the cattle business and gave him that opportunity, and then he kind of sought out the rest from there. He is a full-time mason, and in the winter it gets a little slower, which fortunately for ranchers around here, that's when they're calving. And so he was able to go work on a ranch and learn all these different things that he could be doing from this ranch to that ranch.

(00:25:40):
And so he took all of that back to our place. And I think about it all the time where I'm like, I had one awesome teacher of my dad and my mom, but he went to multiple ranches. He got to decide what he liked or maybe didn't like and then utilize it in our own cow herd. And you would never know he's first gen, he can out cowboy me on quite a few things. And I respect that a lot. And it's all because the Angus breeders gave this young guy from living on the lake in town a chance, and he showed up every day and loved it. But that just goes to show how welcoming the Angus breed is and how once you prove you have some skin in the game and you're not just here for fun, that they will help you and they want to see you succeed.

Jake McCaleb (00:26:27):
Also, BLI on 2024, I got to go. I can remember sitting here opening the email. It was like a Christmas morning, I about fainted. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited. And I tell this story now because everybody been on BLI will tell you how you made such good friends on that trip, the networking of being able, and I tell this on the list of people that was going, I didn't know anyone except one name and it was Cole Gardiner, and I thought, I bet you he's a prick. I thought, I bet he's a prick. So we go on the trip, fast forward, and me and Cole have become some of the best friends that I've ever had. Me and him talk almost daily and other people, there's Ruben Mendoza, Callie Carson, there's a bunch that I just, if I wouldn't have had that trip in my life, it changed my life.

(00:27:28):
It really did. Getting to see a bigger, leaving a small town in Tennessee and getting to go to the Tyson plant, getting to come to American Angus and just seeing all the things, but also meeting these people and now we're lifelong friends and I can call them and say, Hey, this is what I'm thinking. What do you think? And they're like, oh, that's great. Try it. Do what you want. I mean, so if there's young people that's first generation listening to this. Your number one goal should be to apply for BLI, I promise you that will change your life. If there's anything that you've ever done, that is what you should do. It is great. It's one of the greatest things I've ever done, ever.

Miranda Reiman (00:28:16):
Well, that is feedback we're going to get back to Caitlyn for sure. They do have a lot of time planning that

Mark McCully (00:28:21):
Beef Leaders Institute. For those that are more interested in learning more, you go on the website that's supported through the Foundation and Certified Angus Beef. And yeah, it's been, I think Jake, did I remember a story that you, or maybe your family had already booked a vacation? Was there some conflict that you guys had that you got out of?

Jake McCaleb (00:28:42):
My entire family had booked a big house down in Florida and everybody's pumped. We're going to Florida. Boom. I get this email and I'm like, oh my, it's the same week. And my wife, I can remember at first she's like, what? And I said, listen, I've got to do this. And it smoothed over very, very well. I got a lot of Facetimes of kids jumping in pools and jumping in the ocean. But she will tell you that when I come home from that, when we come home at the same time, it was great. It was just, and then this, getting to do this with you guys, literally right now I'm on cloud nine. I'm just just excited. I'm excited about the business.

Mark McCully (00:29:29):
You guys have such a passion for the business and I am sure there's a lot of folks that are listening that are maybe where you were as you were just getting started. So as you were just getting started, I know as I talk to young people, probably one of the hurdles that just seems like it's impossible to overcome is how do you get the land? How do you get that first step? How do you get even that cow herd started? So maybe what were some of the keys as you guys that look at getting as you got started or some of the things that you'd have done differently now looking back?

Jake McCaleb (00:30:02):
Yeah. For me, I think it's clarity of mind of what you want to go to. What's your overall goal? My brothers made fun of me, which they're brothers. I had a vision board. I know that sounds very whatever, but I did. And on that board there is simple things like a new headchute, a certain type of cow. So I had a vision board when I got started here in middle Tennessee. The cow man is, we're competing with rowcroppers. But for a younger guy that maybe he doesn't have, maybe his grandfather didn't have a farm, I would say, you've got to go out and find you a place and rent and you've got to go and make sure that you're being respectful of the land. Take care of it, improve it, go that route. That's going to be your cheapest way to get started.

(00:30:55):
FSA office here in our county is great. There's a lot of good people there will work with you, but you need to have a plan. You need to have a goal. And if you don't know what that is, that goes back to the networking of people to go and talk to them and say, Hey, I want to try this and maybe their opinion will help you. That's what I had to do. My dad, we did have a small a hundred acre farm that I grew up on, so I was blessed in that sense. My cousins, they, old dairy farm, they'd rent me their place as well. And then I have a few others. So I've tried to grow slowly and I still want to keep going. It's just sometimes don't bite more than you can chew. But for a younger guy getting started, I think that's the then, and I'll tell this, Mr. Harold, I picked out some great cattle he had and I didn't have the money. And he said, son, I'll tell you what you do. You pay me as you can. And once a month or so, I would take him some money. And I mean I was very blessed with that. I mean, he really wanted to see me succeed. And so maybe someday I can do that for a young guy, maybe someday a young guy wants to and I'll pay it forward. I think that's what we need to do to help the younger generation. We need to get 'em excited about it, need to see 'em go after it, and it's going to get harder. I don't think it is going to get harder, but I mean as far as being in ag, we've seen bad times before and the country is, the love for it. I think we keep your head down, you'll do fine, do fine.

Mark McCully (00:32:41):
Calli in South Dakota, was it a little different?

Calli Williams (00:32:44):
So as I mentioned earlier, that weekend we got engaged, we went straight to the FSA office, and so we got that beginner rancher loan to be able to purchase the place that we call home. But we were very, very fortunate that this property did not go up for sale via auction. So the couple that had lived here before, they did not have any children and they were getting ready to move to town and Tate had already developed a relationship with them. And that to me is the most important part for anyone interested in ag is to work on those relationships because those are what are going to help you in the future. The farm here was an old hog farrowing farm. So lots of little barns, not necessarily fences for cows and those kinds of things, but that FSA loan is what was able to help us purchase the real estate.

(00:33:33):
And now you flash forward 10 years later and we have hit the brakes because now we can't expand our cow herd anymore. We've outgrown the ground that we have here. And so we're trying to figure out, is renting everything else feasible? Are we able to purchase the corner next to us? Type of a deal. But in order to do that, there's a lot of money that goes behind it. And unfortunately some of the pieces near us, the older generation is like, well, I don't want to break it up. I want to sell all 3, 4, 500 acres together. Well, when you're 35 and on your own, we can't justify that. And so we are at that point right now of figuring out what's next, how do we expand? What does that look like? Does it look like doing some kind of satellite herd with my parents 110 miles from here?

(00:34:25):
Or what do we do? But for the sake of should we have done things differently? Sometimes Tate thinks high school version maybe could have just bought some of those heifers and not utilized some of the loans because you do not only age out, but once you take your first loan 10 years later you're off the list for taking out any other kind of loans for youth loans of what they consider. So he is like, man, it was great at the time, but looking back, maybe I should have waited a little bit. But FSA is a huge resource. Anyone that's ever wanting to get started, I do send them there just to see what they have available. Those loans are changing often both on the cattle side and the crop side, but then also the importance of those relationships. The feedbunks we have here, they're from a neighbor who saw that we're staying here, we're not leaving.

(00:35:20):
And they went strictly crops after being in the cattle business. Didn't need them anymore, didn't want to deal with an auction, said if you haul 'em, you can have 'em. That's huge. I mean, that is such a big help for us in the bottom line and being able to feed our cattle better versus what bulls do to portable feedbunks. You're buying new ones every spring. And so to have these concrete bunks here, just because a neighbor said, alright, we'd like to see 'em get used, and then they have more room for their tractors and stuff. But yeah, those relationships and FSA, the two things we really relied on,

Mark McCully (00:35:57):
Nice

Jake McCaleb (00:35:59):
And the younger person, they need to understand, and I know this because you're not going to get everything right off the bat. No, I borrowed a cattle trailer for 10 years from my neighbor. God bless him. He would let me do that as long as I washed it out really good and I put it up, he let me use his cattle trailer. You're not going to have the aluminum trailer right off the bat. You're not going to have the brand new tractor. You have to be smart and sometimes humble. You've got to say, what can I get by with, who's willing to help me with my dream and my goal? And just think about that. You don't need a brand new side by side to go check cattle, right? Nope. Maybe you can get a little old pickup truck for $2,000 that'll do just as good, make you a goal to get that brand new side by side. It's sort of like that. Just know that you don't have to start out with the best. I don't know. That's what I think about often because now I do have a cattle trailer. I finally saved up enough money to get me a aluminum cattle trailer, and I was excited and pumped. It was Christmas morning for me when I did that, and I'm sure my neighbor was happy when I got one.

Calli Williams (00:37:15):
Yeah, you'll appreciate this. We didn't have a tractor the first few years and it was an awful blizzard. Skidsteer couldn't get where it needed to go, but having a mason of a husband, we had a lot of equipment around, so we were literally using a forklift to extend the bale as far as we could out into the pens because no other equipment that we owned could get out there. Skid loader was stuck. And how do you get a skid loader out if you don't have a tractor to pull it out? It was very stressful. But then when we did buy a tractor, I remember Tate had found one online. I joke, I do social media. He does online auctions because he does not have any social media whatsoever that he can log into. I remember asking him, can you accept that on Facebook that we're married?

(00:38:02):
Can you just log in real quick? So he's always scrolling over there shopping and stuff. And so he says, he bought a tractor. I'm like, whoa, okay. He goes, actually, I bought two. Thought, what are you doing? That wasn't the deal. No, it was not the deal whatsoever. And it was something that he found where they had, he had to buy two. It was from somewhere up north of us and from a city. So you buy two, sell the other one. But that was a way also to help with the payments based on how we sell that second one. But you have to be very resourceful, I think, whether you are that first gen or multi-gen. But that's also bred into you too. You're a hard worker, but you are very, very resourceful if you're going to make it in this industry.

Jake McCaleb (00:38:43):
You have to be

Mark McCully (00:38:45):
Great advice. And I've heard that many times of folks getting started of be careful not to again, be patient, not get too much iron around you. That's the stuff if you're going to invest in your genetics and your cows, but be patient. Great reminder, if you guys built your market, so we start, you got started, you've got the land, you got the cows, now you got to get the customers. So how do you do that from scratch? Calli was yours, in South Dakota, you sell a lot of bulls, but there's a lot of people that sell bulls in South Dakota.

Calli Williams (00:39:21):
That's just it. When I used to go to bull sales and offer insurance, and my uncle that lived in Illinois, he thought, how is that a job? I said, you pick a day. And I could pick probably three or four bull sales that are happening, especially in this region. There are just so many cattle available, but they're all really great genetics. Everybody's looking for what fits them best. But the marketing itself is probably one of the hardest things.

Jake McCaleb (00:39:46):
It is

Calli Williams (00:39:46):
Because you're trying to get it out there of who the heck is TW Angus? Even some of my friends from college, they're like, what is it again? I said, I know I need to throw a C in there. TCW Angus maybe. But just getting your name out there, but then being creative in a way that you're marketing to draw in those customers. And so I actually had just sent a message out to your team yesterday, Mark, to work on our bull sale promotions, trying to expand that customer base because 2026 will mark our fifth year of selling online. We have a customer base that we really appreciate. Most of them, probably 80% of the customers we've known for quite a while. And so we're just thankful that they came out, gave us the opportunity, they liked what they saw and have been repeat customers, but now it's time that our numbers are growing and we have to bring in new customers.

(00:40:43):
And so that marketing is really important. The genetics are here. We think the quality is here. And so thank goodness for some social media. I work in print advertising for an agricultural paper, so utilizing that as well in conversations like this. So meeting you, Jake, I don't know if we'll be sending bulls to Tennessee, but maybe.

Mark McCully (00:41:03):
Free trucking, right?

Calli Williams (00:41:05):
I think I know I guy that could truck them, but for work, I put together the Midland Bull Test for our paper. And so just seeing the genetics available out there and marketing with them saying, yeah, our sale's coming up too. So I get what you're going through and it is definitely a hurdle that we have to come over. But the sources available, resources available from the American Angus Association are something I'm excited to utilize this year. To expand on that, now that we have the numbers to grow our customer base,

Miranda Reiman (00:41:39):
We're going to pause for just a moment to hear how Angus Media can help you ramp up your marketing.

Speaker (00:41:44):
Reach the right audience every time. With Angus Media's Pasture to Publish online sale book portal, you can use a customized mailing list to put your genetics in front of targeted customers. We'll give you real-time analytics to ensure your marketing plan is driving people to your offering. It's a program designed with you in mind. Call 816-383-5200 today to get started.

Jake McCaleb (00:42:12):
First thing I'd say is you need to get off the couch and you need to go visit some people. Middle Tennessee, where I'm at, I'm blessed that there is tons of great Angus breeders here. So I just got in the truck, started going to these sales. I didn't know anything about anything. I just wanted to go and be there and rub shoulders with guys and started doing that, learning that this guy likes this type of bull and this guy likes this type of bull. That's one thing about the Angus breed that's also great is there's different types. Started learning that. Nobody ever told me that I had to learn that. So then I would say, find you probably three to five breeders and make sure they're nice and most of 'em are, but start picking their brain, what worked for them. And that's what I did.

(00:43:06):
I started going to these guys and talking to 'em. So then that influenced my breeding. And then you got to like what you're breeding. I mean, it needs to look good. And once you do that, I don't care what anybody else says, that's the product you sell. That might not match this guy. That might not match this guy, but that's the product and you need to stand behind it. Especially being a first generation guy, you need to make sure you tell them, I will stand behind this bull or this heifer, and stay true to that. So once I started finally doing that, I remember, and this is a funny story. Tom Burke came to my place and I was like, Elvis walked in the room, him and Kevin Armstrong come to look at a set of heifers that I was going to be putting in sale. And now given this is right off the beginning for me,

Mark McCully (00:44:04):
Jake, was this the Upper Cumberland sale?

Jake McCaleb (00:44:06):
No, sir. It would've been the Tennessee Agribition.

Mark McCully (00:44:09):
Okay.

Jake McCaleb (00:44:10):
Mr. Tom come up and he said he got out of the truck and he said, Jake, they're a little too thin son, and smacked me on the back. He said, keep feeding them. Do a little better. I said, yes, sir. I was heartbroken. I said, yes, sir. But because who it was, I was in awe. I was really just in shock and awe. But I needed somebody to tell me that, I didn't know that. And Mr. Kevin Armstrong, he sit there and we talked about it. I want you to know that I did sell them two heifers, and one of them ended up bringing, my top seller. She brought $6,000 and I could have cried. I was like, oh my gosh. And then the sales manager said, if they'd been a little fatter, we could have got 10,

Miranda Reiman (00:44:54):
Could have cried again,

Jake McCaleb (00:44:57):
Just the networking of guys and people. You got to try things and it's not going to work. Sometimes it ain't going to work.

(00:45:04):
And you say, okay, back up and punt. So for me, and what works for me is I have been putting bulls in the University of Tennessee Bull test. I have been fortunate enough, last year was my first year, beginner's luck. I won the bull test. Yeah,

Miranda Reiman (00:45:20):
That's a way to get your name out there.

Calli Williams (00:45:22):
Yeah, it is.

Jake McCaleb (00:45:22):
I was pretty pumped about that. Well, this year I was in Minnesota, and it was pretty rough week, but I got a call from Dr. Saulo that I won it again this year. I was like, you're messing with me. There's no way that a guy, and we even talked about it. He's like, how is Jake cheating? I said, I'm not cheating. I'm not doing nothing. So that's what I do. For me, that's worked. That might not work for somebody else. I don't have the herd size or to have my own sale. Not yet. That is a long time goal. But you know what, if I don't get there, I'm happy with the journey. Just make sure the Upper Cumberland, the consignment sale, that is huge for me. That's where I sell my females. Got to make sure we keep that going because I think consignments are a dying breed, and so I want to do whatever I can to make sure the young breeders know.

(00:46:18):
That will probably be your quickest way to get your stuff out there. Come and talk to us and say, Hey, this is what I'd like to do. That's how I had to do it. And over the years, it's literally took me 10 years to sort of get my name in the middle of Tennessee area, and I started from scratch. I started from nothing. So you got to be patient. You got to be patient and watch how you spend your money. Don't be going and buying something just because maybe you've got a chunk of change and you go buy this big donor cow or something. If you don't know what you're buying, you need to talk to, right? Maybe you buy this bull and you didn't know that you needed a heifer bull. There's a lot of people that don't know that. I'm going to breed heifers to this bull and I probably wouldn't do that. Just little tidbits of stuff like that.

Calli Williams (00:47:15):
We look at the Black Hill Stock Show as one of our best marketing pieces. So it's in Western South Dakota, roughly four and a half, five hours from here. But that is the best way that we can not only meet other breeders, but also physically get our cattle out there. So it's a show and sale. And that's something that we take very seriously where it's almost a holiday for us too, because that's when we get to see the people that you only see once a year, but you come home dog tired too. But things like that of echoing what you said, Jake, you've got to get out there. You have to meet with the people. We grind at home. We spent a few years where we were not exhibiting cattle anywhere. We weren't ready. We needed to get our ducks in a row here first. Not only genetically and quality wise, but also when you're going to those shows, you want to put your best foot forward.

(00:48:06):
You want to have the equipment. You want to have everything that you need. It doesn't have to

Miranda Reiman (00:48:10):
The trailer.

Calli Williams (00:48:11):
Yeah, the trailer's handy, but you don't need the top of the line stuff. We're still always going to be the ones that you're looking down the road like, Ooh, those lights are pretty snazzy. Or That blower is cool too. But I was that way in 4-H too. I remember I never got to have a cooler, Mark, you'll appreciate the a Miranda, appreciate this knowing my dad, but was not allowed to have a cooler. And so he said, think of something yourself. I was an old ballerina, and so I took all my dance tights, filled them with ice, hung them to my fans. Voila.

Miranda Reiman (00:48:45):
A redneck cooler.

Calli Williams (00:48:50):
But that's what we had to do. And so again, just being resourceful, but you have to physically be there in order to, yeah, again, yeah, being resourceful, but then the best marketing you can do is physically shaking hands with someone and everything that you said, Jake of standing behind your cattle and all of that comes with it. But when you can meet someone, it makes a huge difference.

Jake McCaleb (00:49:16):
That's the main part. It goes back to the people and then making friendship. And here's the other thing, don't think that your buddies have to buy your cattle. They're your friends. If they like your cattle, great, let 'em, that's great. But that's what we're, you're not just in here to scratch each other's backs. That's not what this is about. And I've got plenty of friends that support me and I support them. I go to their sales. Maybe I didn't buy nothing, but I'm there. I'm going to eat the free dinner. Right? I'm going to be there. But that is also the networking and people want to see you do well. The Angus breed is, in my mind, the top notch for that. It's really, really amazing. It is truly.

Miranda Reiman (00:50:01):
So how do you think if your kids decide that they want to be in the Angus business, how do you think their journey will be different because of what you started today?

Jake McCaleb (00:50:10):
I'd say for McCaleb brothers, Angus, with my little boys, I have said this. I want to build this for them. That is my journey, my goal. And maybe they do not care. Maybe they get old enough. They're like, I could care less. That is fine. God makes us all different, but at least as their dad, I want to provide that for them. That's something that's just, I think in my DNA, a man takes care of his livestock. It's just something that's embedded in me. So I really wanted to try to set my boys up because in 50 years, how hard will this be? We don't know. Middle Tennessee, Nashville is growing so fast. I mean, it really, really is. And there's little farms that's getting bought up like crazy. And the cattleman around this area, he's getting up in age. So I truly want to try to grow this for my boys.

(00:51:09):
Now Jude, he may want to do something with sports, and that may be fine. He may be one a sports writer. I don't know. He's pretty good at fantasy football. He's nine years old and he kills me. I mean, he beats me and my brothers. He is great. Now, Jesse, like my 4-year-old, he is a pistol. He wants to be on the farm. He loves cattle, and I can just sort of see myself in him the way I was. But if both boys wanted to do something with this, I hope that I can grow our brand that one day, hey, I can step aside and let them do it. And that's sort of my goal. That's my dream. I hope I get it right. Who knows? I don't know. I'm just sort of learning as I go, learning as, I'll give them advice. It's not to say they will listen to it because my little boy

Miranda Reiman (00:52:05):
Probably won't.

Calli Williams (00:52:06):
Yeah. Got to try it for themselves.

Miranda Reiman (00:52:09):
Yeah, that's right. I have a 17-year-old boy. I know. They probably won't. Yeah,

Calli Williams (00:52:13):
They should be going to you for advice. Yeah, that's a big part of why we're looking at how the heck do we expand? Because Tate and I talk about it a lot that we're putting in that sweat equity so that hopefully this is something for the boys to take over. I grew up on that small cow calf operation, but it wasn't one that was necessarily sizable for the next generation to stay. It was very in support of whatever I chose to do. But it wasn't a conversation that we had of how do I stay here? And my parents both had incredible careers that they were passionate about. The cows we joked was their hobby. It's just a dang extensive hobby, right? And so it's something that I truly hope that the boys, if they decide to pursue it, that is up to them. But I hope they have each other.

(00:53:03):
And that is something that is very different from Tate and I of starting one-on-one as a married couple, and you're still learning each other, but the boys would have each other, but they'd also have our support. Tate's family not coming from ag is so supportive. And in that, I think says a lot about it of how they see that we are working towards the future. Our oldest being in first grade, he doesn't have any, well, I take that back. He has one friend that is in the Angus business, but the rest, they're all, sports is life. Sports is everything. We live in town, and that's great too. He is making those friendships, but their parents are now understanding that we can't make it to everything. But you're always welcome out at the farm. You can play out here. You're free rein out here. I always think kids grow in that fresh air, but for the sake of what it's going to look like for them, I don't know. For that next generation, I just hope that we can build it up enough that hopefully it's maybe not as financially stressful for them and that it's sizable enough that they're going to have skin in the game. They're going to have to make their own decisions and lessons to learn from it. But it's something that is there if they want to continue it.

Jake McCaleb (00:54:23):
I had one guy, or I got one friend I graduated high school with. It was me and him. We're the only two people that have cattle. In my graduating class. It was, I don't remember, 90 or a hundred or something like that. But me,

Calli Williams (00:54:36):
That's big.

Jake McCaleb (00:54:40):
But it's just me and him that I know of are the only two guys that have cattle. So I mean, that bothers me. I mean, because it's sort of like, what can I do to get younger people to be excited about it? And anybody that knows me knows I like to talk about cattle. I mean, at Thanksgiving dinner I will be talking to people about cattle that could care less, but I'm going to do it. That's just,

Calli Williams (00:55:08):
It's natural.

Mark McCully (00:55:09):
That's what they're going to get.

Jake McCaleb (00:55:11):
Forget the turkey. So I think the Angus breed does a great job at helping get young people the information that they need. But it will, I mean, it's something to think about. It really is because what if you got to feed more people as thing is going along, we're losing land, but we're having to feed more people, and that's something to think about and younger people that's thinking about it, it's a responsibility, but it's also a journey and it's a great style of life. It really is. I wouldn't change it for amount of money. I wouldn't change it

Mark McCully (00:55:52):
For you guys. One of the things, and people are going to get tired of me talking about this, but it was just such a revelation in our membership survey that we did and then went later digging into our membership data. The percentage, we have a really large percentage of our membership, like 30% of our members have been in the Association five years or less. So what were the, for those folks, as you think about someone that's brand new into the Association, what's one or two pieces of advice you would have of learning the American Angus Association programs and services, or what's the advice you have for us as the Association of how we do a better job of providing those in a more meaningful or a clear pathway? You mentioned BLI, Jake earlier, so I'm going to take that one off because that one I would totally agree. As young folks wanting to get plugged in, that's a great opportunity.

Jake McCaleb (00:56:42):
I would say for me to utilize my area, Alex Tolbert. Yeah, ring his phone off the hook. I mean, he is a great dude. He will take his time to talk to you and discuss with you. He has helped me in so many ways and become a friend.

Mark McCully (00:56:59):
Yeah, that's enough on Alex. His head will get big.

Miranda Reiman (00:57:04):
It's true. Those regional managers across the United States, everybody has their Alex in their region

Mark McCully (00:57:10):
Absolutely, I'm glad you say that.

Jake McCaleb (00:57:12):
That is huge. And then it is utilizing maybe the old farmer, the old Angus guy. You can look up and find all these different sales and I promise you that they will take time out of their day to discuss things with you. If you don't know what calving ease means, maybe you don't even know what EPDs are and you're wanting to hurry up your local master beef, BQA. You need to do that first. You definitely need to get that knocked out. You're going to learn a whole lot right there and then it's sort of like a light bulb goes off. And that's how I couldn't learn quick enough. And sometimes I still, I don't know at all. I don't even know part of it, but I get so excited about learning something new in the Angus breed as far as, yeah, and I got a buddy, Adam Jordan and Brian McClaren, I call them. They're sort of my inner circle and I'm like, help me with the Angus website. And I blow y'all up because I'm not the best at computers and stuff as far my brother, I had to come in here to get my speakers working for this thing. But there's plenty of people around you that will help you

Miranda Reiman (00:58:28):
For sure.

Jake McCaleb (00:58:29):
Just look at, just call 'em and say, Hey, I don't know. Here's one thing. How do you name a cow? You know about the cow family. Do you know that we don't. You can call her the big blue bonnet if you want to.

Calli Williams (00:58:44):
I would go about it so different than my husband. So that's an open-ended question there

Miranda Reiman (00:58:47):
That is actually a whole podcast in itself, I think.

Calli Williams (00:58:52):
Yeah, you made my hands sweat a little bit with that question. I'm like, I

Jake McCaleb (00:58:58):
Didn't know, a long time ago. I didn't know that the cow families, I had no idea. So as I started learning that, yeah, I mean, you can name her the big blue bonnet if that's what you want to, it's sort of like this unspoken thing that you, after her mother

Calli Williams (00:59:15):
Or how you're tagging your tagging system, all that stuff.

Jake McCaleb (00:59:19):
It's sort of unspokens. Nobody ever told me. And you start figuring it out. Well, you ask people. You ask people,

Calli Williams (00:59:27):
Right? Yeah. The regional managers are a huge resource and they've always, in our area, we've been pretty fortunate that they're just, and I'm sure it's across the whole country. I just haven't met 'em all. But in our area, they are awesome people. People that I've known fortunately, but also just people that you're not even intimidated to pick up the phone and call them. They have a huge responsibility with their job, but they are the most people focused gentlemen that I've had the opportunity to visit with. I always enjoyed seeing them at bull sales, but when it comes to knowing more about the Angus breed, growing up I showed multiple breeds of cattle. And the only one that I usually as a kid didn't screw up with registration papers was the Angus Association because everything was pretty straightforward. The website was great, and if I had a question and I would call in, you're not waiting to get to someone, and you were always visiting with the same person on the same registration paper, and that was huge.

(01:00:28):
And so for someone getting started, they might not realize that, but as coming from someone who has been within three different breed associations, I am very, very positive that I will strictly stay Angus. The boys have Simmental thanks to my dad starting them there. But the Angus Association is so helpful. If you have any kind of question, like you said, with naming your cows or what you're doing online with the recent website, revamp, all of that stuff. And then also just for me, when you go out to those bull sales, you're learning a lot more because of some of the data that people print versus what others don't print. But those bull sale catalogs are almost like a Bible each year. For those producers. There is so much information you can learn from, and we have a stack every time we purchase something, we keep that catalog.

(01:01:21):
And I mean, they have lost their color on some of 'em. They're so faded. But you just go and look back at what was the turning point? Why did we buy that one? Why did we buy this bull? What was the EPD that in 2000 really hit the marker for us type of deal. So there are just so many resources available from the Angus Association, but knowing your regional manager is the best foot forward that you will have because once you have a conversation with them, they're not going to forget it and you're going to run into them, at least in our area. Like I said, with bull sales, you could run into them every single day. But again, they keep those relationships going.

Mark McCully (01:02:02):
Great. Great advice.

Miranda Reiman (01:02:03):
Well, I promise we didn't ask that question just to get compliments, but it is nice to hear we're doing some things right, but always working to try to make

Calli Williams (01:02:13):
I envy their energy. We have Andrew Swanson right now, and man, you're a little firecracker.

Jake McCaleb (01:02:20):
Andrew, we ... on BLI together.

Calli Williams (01:02:21):
OK, see? Small world.

Miranda Reiman (01:02:27):
Well, I must say that we don't always have an outline, but we had a whole list of questions, a whole page of questions. I think we got to not very many of them because this conversation was just so fun. I don't know if I looked at my paper once, but I know that we promised you guys an hour and we are right up on that. So before I ask my random question of the week, which is how we always end the podcast, is there anything that we haven't covered or Mark if I give you a chance to ask one more, it might turn into another 10 minutes.

Mark McCully (01:02:58):
I know, I'll be careful. We'll just have to have 'em back. How about that?

Miranda Reiman (01:03:01):
That's right. Anything that we haven't covered that you wanted me to address? Otherwise I'm going to jump into the random question

Calli Williams (01:03:06):
Get in the nitty gritty on a second episode. Yeah.

Miranda Reiman (01:03:11):
Okay. So random question of the week, because you guys are working alongside your kids often. I want to know one hack that you have for making that work for working with young kids alongside cattle work.

Jake McCaleb (01:03:24):
Oh, wow.

Miranda Reiman (01:03:26):
Not that long ago. I did a story or a couple of years ago with two moms that had raised their kid and the kids in the cattle business, one who was on the end of it, her kids were grown, and another one who was kind of just starting with young kids. And I thought a lot of those hacks I could use, not even working cattle, just parenting. So it's kind of a little selfish question here too, but

Calli Williams (01:03:49):
I've always felt very safety mom when we're outside, just because that mix of ranching and masonry. Right now I have a forklift driving around. That's why I keep looking out the back window. But because working on a little, I'm finally going to have an office, but we're working on a little addition here

Miranda Reiman (01:04:06):
It's not the forklift.

Calli Williams (01:04:07):
No, I'm just waiting to see if my youngest is in the bucket or not. He, he's not yet, but lots of safety rules. And so the boys know whether it is piece of equipment, a truck like that grain truck that was here during our conversation earlier that if a vehicle of any type is running, they are on our deck. They cannot go running around if a vehicle is running, because some of the equipment for sure, you cannot see a small person running around. And then I've always been very, very strict on that. And then when we are out doing something with putting up hay or something like that, we have these little safety vests and it just gives me a little peace of mind tape, Tate peace of mind, because he can find them in that high vis yellow. Is it over the top? Maybe, but you're not over the top when it comes to safety of your kiddos. And they feel so cool wearing those vests.

Miranda Reiman (01:05:00):
It's like they're officially part of the crew.

Calli Williams (01:05:02):
Yeah, yeah. They're the foreman. And so there were those things in place and then we're coming up on, it'd be two years now that Tate had an accident with our baler during the season of putting up cornstalk bales. And so that just reiterated the importance of having those rules in place. And there's lots of times where the boys will be like, well, yeah, I don't want my fingers to look like Dad's because they need to follow those safety rules. And having nieces and nephews that again, are not on a farm, then if my two boys know the rules, the nieces and nephews will follow. Sure. They all get excited when they come out and they play here and they have a blast. But you can see the boys have that little bit of fun too, of pushing the boundaries, but then they come back, they know we're not, I heard something run the tractor's running. We can't be running around. We got to get in the barn or on the deck type of a deal. So I think it's really, really important to have them with you. Then they're learning and they're not scared, but to also have just those black and white rules in place. So right now, if I'm being on this call and the equipment's running, I know they're either with Tate or they're on the deck.

Miranda Reiman (01:06:17):
I like that.

Mark McCully (01:06:17):
Great advice.

Miranda Reiman (01:06:18):
Yeah.

Jake McCaleb (01:06:18):
I would say for me, and this is funny, but I've learned this, definitely take you boys with you and it will slow you down. And there'll be moments where you need to take a deep breath because fighting and

Calli Williams (01:06:31):
Snacks too. I didn't bring that up. You need snacks.

Jake McCaleb (01:06:36):
The back of my truck is covered in Cheez-Its and Cheetos. And I have so many snacks because as soon as we get there to do what we're going to do, guess what? Dad? I'm hungry. I can blow a gasket. I'm like, boys, we got stuff to do. But it never fails. It's almost like when we go to the farm, okay, we're hungry. So I have learned, take snacks, keep them in the back of the truck, keep something for food. And then of course I let them, it helps me a lot, but I let them open gates. They're going to help open the gates. We're going to go out here. We're going to count all the calves. How many should we have? You Sure. How many mama cows do we have? Let's count 'em again. So getting them involved like that. That's for sure. And of course, like I said, Jesse, don't go stand next to the sinkhole, but let's get back here.

(01:07:29):
Get over here with daddy. Why do you think, why? So yeah, I definitely, I take my boys with me, Jude. I usually pick him up from school. We run and check cows and make sure you bring your warm jacket today. It's really cold. It's gotten down in the teens here in Tennessee last night and Saturday it will be 73. Tell me. I mean, it's insane. But no, that's it. Take snacks. Get 'em involved. Yeah, and it's great, whenever they really, sometimes when it's really, really cold, their mama don't want 'em to go. And I get that. Let 'em stay in the warm. But

Mark McCully (01:08:11):
Now is that really, really cold Tennessee version or really, really cold South Dakota version?

Calli Williams (01:08:14):
I was going to say, you could probably,

Miranda Reiman (01:08:15):
That was actually the opposite at my farm in Minnesota. It would be like we got school canceled one time because it was so cold that the governor canceled school. It was like -70 wind chill or whatever, governor Arne Carlson. So it was a long time ago. What did we do? We went outside to unfreeze the waterers, and

Calli Williams (01:08:39):
I had traveled this year on the Young Cattleman's Conference trip. And so now having expanded that network to a different group across the US, we have a group chat going on, and there was some members talking about how cold it was. I'm like, oh, just wait. I'll be in touch soon.

Mark McCully (01:08:57):
Yeah, that's a cool evening in September.

Calli Williams (01:08:59):
Yeah. I'm like, that is beautiful. You just killed your mosquitoes. And yeah,

Jake McCaleb (01:09:04):
Schools let out yesterday here in Tennessee because it flurried. And that's the truth. I mean, it was okay, and everybody panicked. That's sort of how we do down here.

Miranda Reiman (01:09:14):
That's awesome. Well, we appreciate you guys taking the time to visit with us today. I think I can say this on behalf of all Angus members that we're glad to have you as the next generation of Angus producers raising the next generation of Angus producers. So you've provided a lot of insight into possibilities for those who might be in your position 10 years ago. And I think you've also probably given a lot of hope to that. We have generations of folks that are listening that are also wondering what's the future of their operation and not sure what's going to happen. And now we're looking to young people thinking there's a lot of hope. There are a lot of possibilities ahead. So thank you so much for visiting with us today.

Mark McCully (01:09:56):
Thank you guys. And just admire your passion and excitement, that recharges our batteries too, and makes us want to make sure we're always doing better. And knowing that you guys are out there grinding and dreaming, and that's just really fun. I, again know both of you guys, got to watch your stories a little bit, and they're going to be fun to watch the next several chapters. So thanks for coming on and sharing some of that.

Calli Williams (01:10:20):
We appreciate the support, so thank you.

Jake McCaleb (01:10:23):
Oh yeah, definitely. Thank you for the opportunity.

Miranda Reiman (01:10:26):
And with that, we're marching through season seven. If you've been enjoying these episodes, I have a tiny favor to ask. Go into your favorite podcast platform and leave us a rating or a comment that will help other Angus members to be able to find conversations just like this. Thanks for listening. This has been The Angus Conversation, an Angus Journal podcast.